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Thread: Lear Jets

  1. #21
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    Spotted two RAAF Airbus KC30As, A39-001 and A39-003, exercising east of Brisbane this afternoon. Good to see this interesting military type still visible on FR24 (A39-003 is correctly shown as a KC30A but A39-001 is labelled as an Airbus A330-243).

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalBrian View Post
    I think all C-13O aircraft information is hidden too.
    Even the C-130 Fire Fighting Air Tanker (VLAT)
    See them often over the Med and Spain as they fly in troops and gear from various US locations in the Middle East from their UK Base in Suffolk... my brother-in-law is actually one of the Pilots
    If life is a stage, most of us are unrehearsed...!

  3. #23
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    Ressy

    Below is an image of a LearJet tracked with my FR24 supplied Kit and being displayed in VirtualRadar, as you will note, most of the details are there and present, Callsign was not being transmitted and so no route available... but LearJets flying over the Med frequently turn up on my FR24 and VirtualRadar - note, the virtualradar is just displaying the data from the FR24 Receiver so I can monitor region covered whilst I experiment with Antenna Location/Height.

    LearJet.jpg
    If life is a stage, most of us are unrehearsed...!

  4. #24
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    DemonLee,

    Yes, thats not the problem though, its what FR24 displays on their website/apps, we all see all the data locally, just not via FR24.
    I see callsigns, tails, ICAO, the works, FR24 just ignores the important stuff because its easier to blanket block because some LJ's *might* be used for some militaries - quite strange, since combat and sensitive aircraft use the military version of ADSB that will never show on civilian systems since they are completely incompatible.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ressy View Post
    DemonLee,

    Yes, thats not the problem though, its what FR24 displays on their website/apps, we all see all the data locally, just not via FR24.
    I see callsigns, tails, ICAO, the works, FR24 just ignores the important stuff because its easier to blanket block because some LJ's *might* be used for some militaries - quite strange, since combat and sensitive aircraft use the military version of ADSB that will never show on civilian systems since they are completely incompatible.
    Ressy I get the same data showing if I switch over to the FR24 app on my iPad Air... as for the Miltary ADS-B, the only difference is that most of them are encrypted, however, even in FR24 App they show up with Call Signs and Reg Numbers, Height and Distance as they do in VirtualRadar, but on VirtualRadar the icon for the aircraft do not show up and I believe this is because some are still only using Mode S, some have moved over to ADS-B but in Europe this is not fully adopted yet as it has been in Australia.
    If life is a stage, most of us are unrehearsed...!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonLee View Post
    Ressy I get the same data showing if I switch over to the FR24 app on my iPad Air... as for the Miltary ADS-B, the only difference is that most of them are encrypted, however, even in FR24 App they show up with Call Signs and Reg Numbers, Height and Distance as they do in VirtualRadar, but on VirtualRadar the icon for the aircraft do not show up and I believe this is because some are still only using Mode S, some have moved over to ADS-B but in Europe this is not fully adopted yet as it has been in Australia.
    You clearly do not understand what we are saying. I have no idea what your virtual radar shows, I use linux, and dump1090 clearly shows me everything I want and expect to see on lear jets, for example rescue 451, also known as AM451, but FR24, website or app (which is just the website anyway in reality) does not show what we see, or expect to see, that is, the same as it is for other aircraft - and as it is on other feeder sites we feed and other feeder sites we do not feed as well as mentioned also by others.

    The military here operate on a completely different frequency for their transponders, not all military aircraft use it, some use civil 1090, some use both - but they are non combat type aircraft who operate exclusively on theirs.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ressy View Post
    You clearly do not understand what we are saying. I have no idea what your virtual radar shows, I use linux, and dump1090 clearly shows me everything I want and expect to see on lear jets, for example rescue 451, also known as AM451, but FR24, website or app (which is just the website anyway in reality) does not show what we see, or expect to see, that is, the same as it is for other aircraft - and as it is on other feeder sites we feed and other feeder sites we do not feed as well as mentioned also by others.

    The military here operate on a completely different frequency for their transponders, not all military aircraft use it, some use civil 1090, some use both - but they are non combat type aircraft who operate exclusively on theirs.
    Ressy, let me deal with the Learjet issue first, as I have only seen one today, I have posted as an image the FR24 data - it shows as an LJ45XR, no image or route information today, however that is not always the case, more often than not you can see route data as many Learjets in Europe are owned and operated by Companies that charter them commercially for travellers. I have seen many models of the Learjet appear, as stated previously, most with images and some with route information. Now I have no idea whether or not FR24 has blocked some or all of them as you state, but clearly a 'total' block is not working...

    In relation to Military Aircraft, most European and US use an encrypted form of ADS-B, some don't and if that wasnt the case, then I would not be able to track the KC Extenders, the Eurofighters, the Panavia Tornados etc. in fact, the US issued GUIDANCE to the Military about the data sharing requirement of ADS-B that reads as follows:

    "Note that many modern Mode S transponders and Mode 5 transponders support ADS-B.
    Some military transponders may support ADS-B based “station keeping” using encrypted DF19 ADS-B messages, but this data is not normally decoded or used at all by civil systems.
    Military aircraft will not transmit ADS-B if they wish to be un-observed. In most cases today, tactical military aircraft are not ADS-B equipped or can choose to disable
    transmissions. In future, increasing numbers of military aircraft will be ADS-B capable and will include the ability to disable the transmisisons. Military authorities will enable or disable ADS-B data transmission from concerned aircraft taking into account whether they wish operations to be observed by any ADS-B receiver. Because low cost ADS-B receivers are available to the general public , ADS-B data sharing is only making available to the adjacent authority data that is already available to members of the public (ie: 1those members of the public that have ADS-B receivers).
    Military aircraft that do transmit ADS-B data must always assume they are visible because any ADS-B receiver (on the ground or in the air) can receive and process the transmitted data. "

    Basically, if the current Military Aircraft equipped with ADS-B are on a 'Tactical FLight', that's a mission to you an me, they have the ability to shut it down, however on non tactical flights in Europe, most don't which is why we can often track them with Callsigns, Reg, Height, Distance, Direction etc.

    I have no idea of the state of play regarding Military Aircraft in your country, some may be equipped, some may not, it maybe that the LAW in your country requires public services to hide the data and not display it... only you can find that out by making simple requests of those organisations to find out their position on the matter.

    LearJet.jpg
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  8. #28
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    Here we go, 2nd Learjet of the day I have noticed, this one a Learjet 35A

    I think you have to accept this that FR24 is NOT blocking all Learjets...

    Learjet 35A.jpg
    If life is a stage, most of us are unrehearsed...!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonLee View Post
    Here we go, 2nd Learjet of the day I have noticed, this one a Learjet 35A

    I think you have to accept this that FR24 is NOT blocking all Learjets...

    Learjet 35A.jpg
    As can be seen in both your examples FR24 has blocked the registration and call sign information making individual identification impossible. Which is what Rassy is pointing out.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kpin View Post
    As can be seen in both your examples FR24 has blocked the registration and call sign information making individual identification impossible. Which is what Rassy is pointing out.
    Actually, if you look at 90% of the Learjets that pass over the MED, they are NOT equipped with ADS-B and the 'receiver' is MLAT. I have just picked up a third one today, also MLAT, but I know this particular aircraft is a Luxembourg Air Ambulance that flies frequently in and out of Malaga Airport.

    MLAT uses replies from Mode A, C and S transponders, as well as military IFF and ADS-B transponders and different transponders report different information back so unless you KNOW for sure the Aircraft is fitted with an ADS-B transponder, how can you tell if data is being blocked by FR24 or anyone else.

    In addition, Ressy reported that ALL his Learjets were being type numbered the same and that is NOT the case in my region, I see loads of variations, the Air Ambulance being an LJ45.

    Learjet LJ45.jpg
    If life is a stage, most of us are unrehearsed...!

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