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Thread: Discussion about Flightradar24 database

  1. #11
    Team FR24 Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apgphoto View Post
    Thanks Mike

    If they are manually added then surely its better to add all the details? If the details cant be proved then how do we know the registrations that are being added are correct? I can see errors, registrations have been given to ground vehicles and other real aircraft have incorrect registrations applied (without any other information)

    A good example here, one of your guys has recently given a registration to a ground test signal

    Attachment 9934

    As I said if your team are adding correct registration data, that's good and helpful. But they need to check what they are adding is correct data to start with.

    Can we add registration only data if we know it to be correct and the type not known?
    Of course it's best to have all data, 100% correct, real time, no errors and so one. But let's be realistic. We currently have 1.115.005 rows (1.1 million) of data (aircraft) from 250 countries. Less than 10 of these countries have official databases containing the ModeS/Hex-code. Probably 200+ countries don't even have an public official aircraft registration database. Probably 100+ aircraft are built, scraped or change ownership every day. According to FAA up to 30% of US registered aircraft are transmissing incorrect ADS-B data. Today we have 16.511 ModeS/Hex-codes tagged as incorrect. No one is able to check, verify or confirm all data that is available, submitted or processed. The database is maintained by 20+ people doing their best. If you find incorrect data please report it.

  2. #12
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    The database is maintained by 20+ people doing their best

    Then tell the 20+ people not to add registrations (only) they cant verify, they are creating more errors of their own, as per the example I gave you. It can only be your guys doing it as we are told to add all data.

    Incorrect data from the aircraft is a different story and every country in the world has miscodes, or codes that are used by multiple aircraft. When I'm in Italy I have one code being used by 16 different aircraft so Im very aware of junk data from the aircraft.

    No one is able to check, verify or confirm all data that is available, submitted or processed

    You need someone to do it full time, with industry connections, make me an offer and I will do it!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Of course it's best to have all data, 100% correct, real time, no errors and so one. But let's be realistic. We currently have 1.115.005 rows (1.1 million) of data (aircraft) from 250 countries. Less than 10 of these countries have official databases containing the ModeS/Hex-code. Probably 200+ countries don't even have an public official aircraft registration database. Probably 100+ aircraft are built, scraped or change ownership every day. According to FAA up to 30% of US registered aircraft are transmissing incorrect ADS-B data. Today we have 16.511 ModeS/Hex-codes tagged as incorrect. No one is able to check, verify or confirm all data that is available, submitted or processed. The database is maintained by 20+ people doing their best. If you find incorrect data please report it.
    So who are these mysterious other 19 database editors to which you keep referring in these discussions? I've been here for umpteen years and the only editor that's ever shown their presence on the forums is Maxi. Given the complexity of the database and tendency for errors/typos, why have none of these 'other' 19 editors pariticipated in the forums to clarify the accuracy of submissions etc? These questions were raised a few years ago when Maxi went on holiday for a month and absolutely no additions or corrections that had been submitted during that period were added to the database until Maxi returned and did them himself. You claimed to have 20 database editors so what do these other 19 editors do as it's clear they don't do any hex code additions or corrections?

    It's all well and good bragging about how many hex codes you have in your database but it's moot if you don't have an experienced team of editors screening the data to confirm its accuracy before sending it to the database. By your own admission you have 16,511 erroneous entries - and those are just the ones you know about. Those would not be in the database had they been screened beforehand.

    I can quite well imagine you view apg and myself as being a perpetual thorn in your side for giving you brief over the database but it's simply born out of sheer frustration when submitted corrections are ignored or overruled by your 20-strong editorial team who apparently know better, or additions are added but then overwritten back to the original incorrect data by your third party data sources and the whole cycle just keeps repeating. I've seen this happen numerous times with my Boeing 737 additions and every time I have raised the issue it's been completely ignored so I no longer bother posting them. What's the point in me wasting my time?

    Without wishing to create a cacophony of trumpet blowing you have the best hex codes researchers in the world right here in front you. I defy you to find anyone who has a higher attention to detail and level of screening/proofing the codes for accuracy than apg, 40612 and myself (+ a couple of others who don't post on these forums). You won't find anyone better because they don't exist. Everyone else simply works on the premise that (eg.) if the mode-s callsign field shows the registration then that's what the registration is and sends it off to the database without even bothering to proof it and this is causing the database to be filling up with rubbish. You have a 1.1m hex code database to maintain which is a mammoth task but your whole business model relies on serving accurate data to the public so why wouldn't you want the very best researchers in the 'industry' on your team to ensure that the database is maintained to the highest standard possible? If FR24 was my company I would be grabbing all 3 people with both hands.

    What am I missing?

  4. #14
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    @rki130 Other(s) do appear on the forum they create multiple user names that they hide behind. One you will know because he often tries to prove people wrong. His best tactic is to direct add an aircraft to the DB and then post that its already in the DB, even though it wasnt when it was posted in the forum. Sadly nobody seems to be in control of the 20+ to sort this situation out.

  5. #15
    Team FR24 Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apgphoto View Post
    The database is maintained by 20+ people doing their best

    Then tell the 20+ people not to add registrations (only) they cant verify, they are creating more errors of their own, as per the example I gave you. It can only be your guys doing it as we are told to add all data.

    Incorrect data from the aircraft is a different story and every country in the world has miscodes, or codes that are used by multiple aircraft. When I'm in Italy I have one code being used by 16 different aircraft so Im very aware of junk data from the aircraft.

    No one is able to check, verify or confirm all data that is available, submitted or processed

    You need someone to do it full time, with industry connections, make me an offer and I will do it!
    Every person updating the database is doing their best.
    If would need to verify every data added we would add 2 aircraft per day.
    As I wrote, if any data is incorrect please report the errors.

  6. #16
    Team FR24 Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rik130 View Post
    So who are these mysterious other 19 database editors to which you keep referring in these discussions? I've been here for umpteen years and the only editor that's ever shown their presence on the forums is Maxi. Given the complexity of the database and tendency for errors/typos, why have none of these 'other' 19 editors pariticipated in the forums to clarify the accuracy of submissions etc? These questions were raised a few years ago when Maxi went on holiday for a month and absolutely no additions or corrections that had been submitted during that period were added to the database until Maxi returned and did them himself. You claimed to have 20 database editors so what do these other 19 editors do as it's clear they don't do any hex code additions or corrections?

    It's all well and good bragging about how many hex codes you have in your database but it's moot if you don't have an experienced team of editors screening the data to confirm its accuracy before sending it to the database. By your own admission you have 16,511 erroneous entries - and those are just the ones you know about. Those would not be in the database had they been screened beforehand.

    I can quite well imagine you view apg and myself as being a perpetual thorn in your side for giving you brief over the database but it's simply born out of sheer frustration when submitted corrections are ignored or overruled by your 20-strong editorial team who apparently know better, or additions are added but then overwritten back to the original incorrect data by your third party data sources and the whole cycle just keeps repeating. I've seen this happen numerous times with my Boeing 737 additions and every time I have raised the issue it's been completely ignored so I no longer bother posting them. What's the point in me wasting my time?

    Without wishing to create a cacophony of trumpet blowing you have the best hex codes researchers in the world right here in front you. I defy you to find anyone who has a higher attention to detail and level of screening/proofing the codes for accuracy than apg, 40612 and myself (+ a couple of others who don't post on these forums). You won't find anyone better because they don't exist. Everyone else simply works on the premise that (eg.) if the mode-s callsign field shows the registration then that's what the registration is and sends it off to the database without even bothering to proof it and this is causing the database to be filling up with rubbish. You have a 1.1m hex code database to maintain which is a mammoth task but your whole business model relies on serving accurate data to the public so why wouldn't you want the very best researchers in the 'industry' on your team to ensure that the database is maintained to the highest standard possible? If FR24 was my company I would be grabbing all 3 people with both hands.

    What am I missing?
    What am I missing. Why is the number, their identity so important. Who said they are on the forum?
    If it makes you more satisfied I can change the number to 1 database editor? Or suggest abother number? Will it make you drop this topic?
    Why not report errors instead of disucuss the number of DB editors?

    What am I missing?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Every person updating the database is doing their best.
    If would need to verify every data added we would add 2 aircraft per day.
    As I wrote, if any data is incorrect please report the errors.
    Mike you missed my point it was just about the entries that have an unverified registration and no other details.

    Two a day!! You Swedes are way too relaxed Today I gave you six from official data sources on the web, two with msn missing (because they cant be verified officially on line), two from industry data (which you probably dont have access to) and one from common sense. And that's with out trying.... I need to take a holiday!!

    Ask the boss about my idea of employing someone to do it full time then get back to me

  8. #18
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    Mike

    You seriously need to look at whoever it is on your team that is not behaving correctly

  9. #19
    Team FR24 Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apgphoto View Post
    I need to take a holiday!!
    Sounds like a great idea!

  10. #20
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    On 25th April 2018 the following aircraft was registered:

    Hex: 401DD0
    Aircraft registration: G-BGPJ
    Aircraft Designator: P28A
    Aircraft type: Piper PA-28-161
    Registered Owner: West Lancs Warrior Co Ltd

    Flights appeared on FR24 until recently when either nothing is shown or abbreviated tracks.
    No ADSB so reliant on radar to pick up aircraft. Any ideas why change has happened?

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