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Which is more important: Hardware, sightlines or elevation?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
    You are reaching far further than most of us based in CHC now. (or at least being attributed to)

    I use to have my antenna above peak level of the roof on the back of the sky dish mount. But its now ground pole based, and just peaks the roof ridge on the eastern side. Even at that position I get ground traffic bursts at the airport and as far as the waypoints off the coastline (from kaiapoi). The only thing seems to be the alps stopping me now. As I raise it a little more I gain a few kms
    From my observation T-NZCH2 also has good range towards the Southern Pacific Ocean. But I haven't been looking into NZ a lot really. BPO got me all looking into NZ area to see what kind of range is capable for his receiver.

    Any plans to raise your antenna to a better height or this is your permanent installation Oblivian? Incidentally, my application for FR24 receiver got approved. Wasn't expecting it really as I gave up after not hearing totally for months.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by North Borneo Radar View Post
      From my observation T-NZCH2 also has good range towards the Southern Pacific Ocean. But I haven't been looking into NZ a lot really. BPO got me all looking into NZ area to see what kind of range is capable for his receiver.

      Any plans to raise your antenna to a better height or this is your permanent installation Oblivian? Incidentally, my application for FR24 receiver got approved. Wasn't expecting it really as I gave up after not hearing totally for months.
      Indeed, T-NZCH2 does keep filling in a few holes that way now and then, to the range just shy or about the same as BPO (even from a roof peak on single dwelling). However that soon hands over again to the F- boxes, so hard to compare using the online map the exact overlap.

      It's likely to be this way for a while. I would love to stick a 1-2m pole on the peak.. but the owners won't have a bar of it on such a new build the alternate is a pole on the fence beside my window. But the cable would need to be strung across a pathway and being LMR400 need some fairly sizable holes made in the flashing :/

      Other than that I can get a better base and another extension to crank it up another metre or so. However only of real advantage to my own viewing. Still only a supplied beast, so other than a bit of over-head or east coast flights I'm hardly contributing these days, unless any of the others have downtime, there's enough of the new F-boxes around supplying enough data.
      Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
        You are reaching far further than most of us based in CHC now. (or at least being attributed to)

        I use to have my antenna above peak level of the roof on the back of the sky dish mount. But its now ground pole based, and just peaks the roof ridge on the eastern side. Even at that position I get ground traffic bursts at the airport and as far as the waypoints off the coastline (from kaiapoi). The only thing seems to be the alps stopping me now. As I raise it a little more I gain a few kms
        Does all that 'longer range data' count? Doesn't FR24 ignore all uploaded data referring to planes more then 400km from your declared base location - so with CHC being 100km further east the CHC data from le last 100Km might still be what's used... [curious]

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        • #19
          Originally posted by peterhr View Post
          Does all that 'longer range data' count? Doesn't FR24 ignore all uploaded data referring to planes more then 400km from your declared base location - so with CHC being 100km further east the CHC data from le last 100Km might still be what's used... [curious]
          Peter,

          You are correct as I understand it in that there is a 400km limit to the uploaded data from any one receiver and for a very good reason. When I first began with my receiver in 2008 some aircraft were displaying erroneous longitude data from them and placing them up to on some occasions some 14,000nm or so out into space (generally in the order of 4,000nm to 7,000nm). These errors were then being transferred to the map and looked dreadful with aircraft displaying (incorrectly) all over the map. Something needed to be done and the uploader software was improved by FR24 to deal with this issue. A much more reliable and accurate map is the end result. This topic is mentioned by others on other threads on the forum. Kinetics were never able to (or just didnt) update their software/firmware to fix this issue, at least for the SBS-1 unit.

          To the subject of the thread, like Oblivian and many others, here in Sydney I have mountains to the west, north and south which block signal. The city to the east and a few hills to boot... and heaps of gum trees etc. So in regard to the topic of this thread I fall into the 'all of the above' category- what is important is hardware, line of sight and elevation (of antenna). I first started with a discone antenna, very poor RG58 cable (as far as signal loss) and a not very high antenna location. Since then I have improved my setup with a 1090SJ antenna (thanks again David), far better and shorter length of cable and a much higher mast. The mast alone has increased my range to a 'best' distance of 444km (primarily to the north) and more importantly has removed a vast amount of signal dropout due to obstructions. A better amp has also helped.
          I'm now seeing departing and arriving aircraft at Sydney (SYD/YSSY) at levels which I never could before. I can see aircraft to the east over the Pacific Ocean on approach and departure which I couldnt previously. But it isnt all great news. To the sth west I've lost some aircraft tracking in some small areas and I think the answer is in the fact that by increasing the mast from 20ft on my roof ridge capping to 30ft I have placed the antenna into the 'shadow' of a few tree canopies that I previously was 'shooting' underneath or aside. There are also many more feeders here so getting onto the map can be a bit of a lottery.

          However the above are some of the reasons why I dont think of the (now) many uploaders in this region (I started as the second feeder here) as 'competition.' I look at it as more of giving me the incentive I need to improve my setup.

          Hope this adds something useful to the discussion.

          Regards,
          Gregg

          NOTE: 400nm = roughly 740km so it's a fair way from 'home' to be picking up aircraft and perhaps, sadly, we dont all live on mountain tops.
          Last edited by fungus; 2014-03-27, 06:11. Reason: additional info, adjustment and correction
          YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

          Comment


          • #20
            Don't get me wrong, this is an unusual situation in that this is a F- receiver mounted on the top of a mountain and has a stupendous range covering almost the whole of south island NZ and a long way out to sea - well over 400km - possibly receiving planes that are beyond the range of receivers much lower altitude actually on the shorelines.

            I was just wondering if some of the data from the mountaintop receiver would be ignored because of the 400km limit
            ... in which case the shore line feeders would still update the server since it is within their 400Km allowance.

            In cases like this is FR24 able to relax the 400Km limit - especially when the feeder is an F- of known quality with a GPS time source, etc.

            (What really would be interesting would be if the limit were replaced by some sort of calculation that said we last got a reading at time t1 and it was located at position p1, the reported position is p2 at time t2, is it possible for the plane to have travelled distance ABS(p2 - p1) in the time (t2 - t1) at a speed of - say 1100km/h)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by peterhr View Post
              Don't get me wrong, this is an unusual situation in that this is a F- receiver mounted on the top of a mountain and has a stupendous range covering almost the whole of south island NZ and a long way out to sea - well over 400km - possibly receiving planes that are beyond the range of receivers much lower altitude actually on the shorelines.

              I was just wondering if some of the data from the mountaintop receiver would be ignored because of the 400km limit
              ... in which case the shore line feeders would still update the server since it is within their 400Km allowance.

              In cases like this is FR24 able to relax the 400Km limit - especially when the feeder is an F- of known quality with a GPS time source, etc.

              (What really would be interesting would be if the limit were replaced by some sort of calculation that said we last got a reading at time t1 and it was located at position p1, the reported position is p2 at time t2, is it possible for the plane to have travelled distance ABS(p2 - p1) in the time (t2 - t1) at a speed of - say 1100km/h)
              Is it 400km? Do they block data over 4000km? I get planes just over 250nm and that is just over 450km and it is displayed on FR24. I vaguely remember a figure and something but I cannot recall where and which thread it was in... buried deep somewhere. I did recall if correct Mike say the a/c will have to be shown moving on ?PP/whatever GUI before it is deemed suitable to be uploaded to the server. i.e. single blips of an a/c on PP will not be uploaded to FR24 and as you will know this normally is planes at extreme range.

              If I have the time I will try dig it out... perhaps it is at the windows FR24 feeder software thread.
              Last edited by North Borneo Radar; 2014-03-25, 14:35.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by North Borneo Radar View Post
                Is it 400km? Do they block data over 4000km? I get planes just over 250nm and that is just over 450km and it is displayed on FR24. I vaguely remember a figure and something but I cannot recall where and which thread it was in... buried deep somewhere. I did recall if correct Mike say the a/c will have to be shown moving on ?PP/whatever GUI before it is deemed suitable to be uploaded to the server. i.e. single blips of an a/c on PP will not be uploaded to FR24 and as you will know this normally is planes at extreme range.

                If I have the time I will try dig it out... perhaps it is at the windows FR24 feeder software thread.
                I do remember a 400 figure which is why I added the ???? on the original query - the thought of trying to read the whole windows feeder thread is likely to make me suicidal.

                Comment


                • #23
                  400 km would be on the low side for an F-rx these days. F-ESDF-1 rarely see less than 450-460 km (250 nm) and with some conditions up to 600 km (330 nm ). All good quality positions accepted by FR24. This from a city rooftop site just 50 m ASL.

                  As mike says, increasing rx altitude does very little for your maximum range to high-flying planes once you reach these figures due to earth curvature, but it will provide better deep coverage (ground and low-level) to airports in your vicinity, say within 100km it can make a huge difference because you can see down into valleys or behind ridges that otherwise would be obscured from LOS.

                  I worked with microwave radio links for many years and there are good software utilities that will help you calculate LOS range at different altitudes.

                  /M
                  F-ESDF1, F-ESGG1, F-ESGP1, F-ESNK1, F-ESNV2, F-ESNV3 F-ESSL4, F-ESNZ7, F-LFMN3
                  T-ESNL1, T-ESNL2, T-ESGR15
                  P-ESIA, P-ESIB, P-ESGF, P-ESSN, P-EFMA
                  mrmac (a) fastest.cc

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by peterhr View Post
                    I do remember a 400 figure which is why I added the ???? on the original query - the thought of trying to read the whole windows feeder thread is likely to make me suicidal.
                    Here is some info:

                    My interpretation is so long the receiver is within 500km from the homebase (in coverage) data received will be uploaded to FR24.

                    i.e. If Manchester Airport is my homebase and I got posted to work in Venice for a few weeks and in Venice when I use the same sharing key for the feeder software in Manchester my data won't be uploaded as I am 500km out of my homebase. There shouldn't be any limit to how far a/c data will be uploaded by your receiver, so long you are in your homebase and is showing good data (planes moving, not a single blip) the software will upload the data.

                    Please see links for source:

                    ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                    ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                    ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                    ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                    Hi all, On friday I dig out my DVB-T RTL USB stick and started ADS-B reception. I am currently feeding FR24 since Friday using dump1090 and the Linux feeding software. My home location is located near LFST (32km) in France. My office is located near EDSB (8km) in Germany. I can see the planes landing/taking off from my
                    Last edited by North Borneo Radar; 2014-03-25, 23:43.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by North Borneo Radar View Post
                      Here is some info:

                      My interpretation is so long the receiver is within 500km from the homebase (in coverage) data received will be uploaded to FR24.

                      i.e. If Manchester Airport is my homebase and I got posted to work in Venice for a few weeks and in Venice when I use the same sharing key for the feeder software in Manchester my data won't be uploaded as I am 500km out of my homebase. There shouldn't be any limit to how far a/c data will be uploaded by your receiver, so long you are in your homebase and is showing good data (planes moving, not a single blip) the software will upload the data.

                      Please see links for source:

                      ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                      ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                      ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                      ... This software has been removed and is not supported as feeding software any more! Our preferred way of sharing data is to use our own feeding application. Whether you are using Basestation, Airnav RadarBox, ADSBScope or anything else does not matter as long as it is providing so called


                      http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...eding+location
                      I read it as (Being located in Birmingham UK) my feeder will only upload data for planes as far west as Shannon and as far east as Amsterdam. If I relocate to Hamburg, then the only planes that would be uploaded are those I see that happen to be within 500km of Birmingham.

                      I'll come back and edit this - I want to draw a 500km circle around the 'home airport' of the F- receiver on the mountain to see how much data in the 'line of sight' plot is possibly discarded due to the 500km from home airport rule.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by peterhr View Post
                        I want to draw a 500km circle around the 'home airport' of the F- receiver on the mountain to see how much data in the 'line of sight' plot is possibly discarded due to the 500km from home airport rule.
                        Here's an image showing range rings with diameters of 250km and 500km centred on Glentanner Airport (GT), Mount Cook, which is ~56km due north of the actual position of my FR24.

                        rings.jpg

                        The ADS-B on the mountain appears to exceed the 500km limit (I've tracked to at least 551km, according to Google Earth's ruler tool) and I'm sure others too are getting very close to that limit, if not equalling or exceeding it.

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                        • #27
                          My max solid data is about 185nm. Max Patchy 205

                          Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
                          Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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                          • #28
                            And I just tracked QF(A)28 out to 492km over the Tasman Sea on its way to Sydney, Australia from Santiago.

                            (Red dot marks location of the FR24 receiver.)

                            qf(a)28.jpg

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BPO View Post
                              And I just tracked QF(A)28 out to 492km over the Tasman Sea on its way to Sydney, Australia from Santiago.

                              (Red dot marks location of the FR24 receiver.)

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]3707[/ATTACH]
                              Hi BPO,

                              Is the antenna mounted at its final location now?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by North Borneo Radar View Post
                                Is the antenna mounted at its final location now?
                                No, not yet. I'm still awaiting the arrival of the new antenna masts. I'm hoping to have the final move completed by the end of next week.

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