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difference between radarcape vs dvb-t stick

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
    Vs 3 layers of software decoding processes on a Rpi to do similar. You can only imagine the speed indifference.
    The free PiAware image is just one software download and install. Takes about 5 minutes to be up and running using an RPi and DVB-T SDR receiver, total cost less than GBP 50.

    My Pro Stick DVB-T SDR performs as well as the Radaracape.
    Mike


    www.radarspotting.com

    Radarspotting since 2005

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Anmer View Post
      The free PiAware image is just one software download and install. Takes about 5 minutes to be up and running using an RPi and DVB-T SDR receiver, total cost less than GBP 50.

      My Pro Stick DVB-T SDR performs as well as the Radaracape.
      When I refer to software I don't mean the ease of Installation but the many layers to produce the same results

      1 OS
      2 driver (software) to attach to hardware
      3 software layer to connect to and capture raw data from hardware chipset
      4 another layer to process said data
      5 bundled uploading.

      All of which take precious CPU and ram cycles to do so and can be counter effected by external influence. And as we have seen, so many addition possibilities of issues for those that tinker too much and don't know what they broke

      Where as a FPGA type solution is able do do the first 3 or 4 layers at a much more economic rate without needing to know how.

      Yes,. Big cost difference. But depending on people's confidence a valid alternative

      Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk
      Last edited by Oblivian; 2016-12-20, 08:16.
      Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
        When I refer to software I don't mean the ease of Installation but the many layers to produce the same results

        1 OS
        2 driver (software) to attach to hardware
        3 software layer to connect to and capture raw data from hardware chipset
        4 another layer to process said data
        5 bundled uploading.
        k
        Surely Guenter has similar layers of software in the Radarcape, just as someone else has built in PiAware?

        As for CPU, I don't see any huge demands from PiAware on my RPi. In fact I have no interest in the CPU being used by my GBP 35 RPi which is doing the same job as the Radarcape, albeit with an external GBP 15 DVB-T SDR. All I know is it performs as well as the Radarcape at tenth of the cost.

        I bought my first dedicated Mode-S receiver, an SBS-1, in 2005. I also have an SBS-1eR, SBS-3, RadarBox, FR24 receiver, FlightFeeder Blue, FlightFeeder Orange, RadarCape, Beast, Transponder Mouse, GNS5890, Aurora and RadarGadget. I tried to buy a PlaneFinder receiver but they wouldn't sell me one.

        Guenter is a highly qualified "engineer" for whom I have the utmost respect. However, 11 years later, I am happy to report that the low-cost DVB-T SDR/RPi combo and PiAware delivers comparable data to that produced by eye-watering, more expensive specialist Mode-S receivers. Compare the cost of today's DVD players and the Philips Video 2000 Video in 1980!

        Given what I now know, I'd start off with an RPi based solution and then think very carefully before investing in an alternative setup. However, I also know there are those who will, just as there are those who buy Breitling and Rolex watches. I no longer wear a watch. I use my mobile phone instead.
        Mike


        www.radarspotting.com

        Radarspotting since 2005

        Comment


        • #19
          That is true. But this also one hell of a necro-dig of a thread that's 2 years old. And I was just re-answering why there is a cost difference as asked which have all been outlined on the earlier posts in a bit more detail

          A custom made PCB with FPGA chip thats coded into said chip to do the necessary work faster ready to go out of the box just isn't a cheap process.

          Same reason the MicroADSB - the same size as a USB stick but different technology, yet performs worse is/was a whole lot more expensive.
          Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
            But this also one hell of a necro-dig of a thread that's 2 years old.
            Sure. And I was merely offering a different opinion that's valid today.
            Mike


            www.radarspotting.com

            Radarspotting since 2005

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Jarod View Post
              Get an Airspy (airspy.com) much better hardware, even better software.
              Or go even cheaper and get an Airspy Mini. Which is as good as the same while using ADS-B.

              To answer your question: It's pure marketing.
              Airspy = Airspy + computer (RPI) + software.
              Radacape = Connect and go (Especially the FR24 version.)

              You can connect Virtual Radar Server or similar to both, that says the same.

              I have both, FR24 aims for good coverage but not the max possible.
              Airspy you can fine tune to the outer limit and go ADS-B DXing
              In terms of performance how much better would an Airspy mini be compared to a standard dongle. I already have a PC based setup using a rtl dongle and a Flight Aware antenna and looking at ways to improve coverage but there is quite a price difference with the Airspy. Basically I'm asking is it worth the money

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by paulgul View Post
                Basically I'm asking is it worth the money
                It may be "worth the money". But my question would be:

                "Is it worth the extra money?"

                My GBP 20 DVB-T SDR Pro Stick out performs my GBP 500 Kinetic SBS-3. But the biggest gain is having an external antenna, installed as high as possible.

                For the money, one can't beat a suitable DVB-T SDR/RPi combo with a suitable external antenna in an optimum location. But that's just my opinion, others may differ.
                Mike


                www.radarspotting.com

                Radarspotting since 2005

                Comment


                • #23
                  A hardware receiver like the Radarcape can only be justified if you need the specific feature set it offers uniquely. As I see it, that means

                  - precise, absolute, timestamping of incoming data for use in mlat networks.
                  - very high capacity for processing overlapping data in areas with extremely high traffic on 1090.

                  For all other uses, the price/performance of a Raspberry + a Flightaware ProStick (plus) can not be beat. We get better range from the Prostick than the Radarcape/FR24-box in a side-by-side comparison using one antenna and professional splitter, and there is a larger selection of software that can be installed on he Rpi, for eample simultaneous decoding of AIS, ATC voice, etc etc. Not bad for a complete receiver under 100 USD (Rpi, case, Power supply, FA ProStick). You could even build it into one box if you like the integrated look. I have made a couple of 19" 1U boxes for use in rack installations.

                  Regarding the Airspy, it is a great wide-bandwidth SDR, but our tests showed disappointing results with ADSB. It was on par with a regular 8 USD SDR, clearly NO point in locking such a big investment up doing just ADSB. We use that for general signal analysis instead.

                  Both of these comparisons were made from ESDF, a good receiver location with 300nm range, but we have NO way to test in really congested airspace like around Amsterdam or Frankfurt, there results may be different.

                  /M
                  F-ESDF1, F-ESGG1, F-ESGP1, F-ESNK1, F-ESNV2, F-ESNV3 F-ESSL4, F-LFMN3
                  P-ESGR, P-ESIA, P-ESIB, P-ESGF
                  mrmac (a) fastest.cc

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
                    Vs 3 layers of software decoding processes on a Rpi to do similar. You can only imagine the speed indifference.
                    Speed and signal strength is therefore taken care of at RAM speed vs CPU cycles and software.
                    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. In such circumstances, silence is golden....

                    /M
                    F-ESDF1, F-ESGG1, F-ESGP1, F-ESNK1, F-ESNV2, F-ESNV3 F-ESSL4, F-LFMN3
                    P-ESGR, P-ESIA, P-ESIB, P-ESGF
                    mrmac (a) fastest.cc

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Ok, thanks for the answers/opinions, I think I may replace my basic RTL dongle with a FlightAware version that has the built in amp, several people have reported better figure after upgrading.
                      Paul

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi, Thanks everyone for the help with Flightaware ProStick it has On Board Amplifier but I have 60 to 65-foot run I'm looking at about 3.2 dB loss if with LMR-400 can I use the Uputronics 1090Mhz ADS-B Filtered Preamp with Ceramic Filter at the mast? and disable the Amplifier on the ProStick ?

                        Thanks

                        Originally posted by MrMac View Post
                        A hardware receiver like the Radarcape can only be justified if you need the specific feature set it offers uniquely. As I see it, that means

                        - precise, absolute, timestamping of incoming data for use in mlat networks.
                        - very high capacity for processing overlapping data in areas with extremely high traffic on 1090.

                        For all other uses, the price/performance of a Raspberry + a Flightaware ProStick (plus) can not be beat. We get better range from the Prostick than the Radarcape/FR24-box in a side-by-side comparison using one antenna and professional splitter, and there is a larger selection of software that can be installed on he Rpi, for eample simultaneous decoding of AIS, ATC voice, etc etc. Not bad for a complete receiver under 100 USD (Rpi, case, Power supply, FA ProStick). You could even build it into one box if you like the integrated look. I have made a couple of 19" 1U boxes for use in rack installations.

                        Regarding the Airspy, it is a great wide-bandwidth SDR, but our tests showed disappointing results with ADSB. It was on par with a regular 8 USD SDR, clearly NO point in locking such a big investment up doing just ADSB. We use that for general signal analysis instead.

                        Both of these comparisons were made from ESDF, a good receiver location with 300nm range, but we have NO way to test in really congested airspace like around Amsterdam or Frankfurt, there results may be different.

                        /M

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by qc91 View Post
                          Hi, Thanks everyone for the help with Flightaware ProStick it has On Board Amplifier but I have 60 to 65-foot run I'm looking at about 3.2 dB loss if with LMR-400 can I use the Uputronics 1090Mhz ADS-B Filtered Preamp with Ceramic Filter at the mast? and disable the Amplifier on the ProStick ?

                          Thanks
                          Why disable the Prostick amp, I use a preamp at the aerial (Flightaware aerial) and the prostick without any problems. With my loft mounted aerial I'm getting up to 200 miles in certain directions
                          (the red circles on the image are at 50 mile intervals)
                          coverage.jpg

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi, thanks how long is your coax cable run to your antenna?


                            Originally posted by paulgul View Post
                            Why disable the Prostick amp, I use a preamp at the aerial (Flightaware aerial) and the prostick without any problems. With my loft mounted aerial I'm getting up to 200 miles in certain directions
                            (the red circles on the image are at 50 mile intervals)
                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]8586[/ATTACH]

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                            • #29
                              Around 25 to 30 feet of RG6 cable

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                              • #30
                                Thanks it looks you have 3 dB loss for that run 30 feet of RG-6 what antenna are you using? and or you using the Pro Stick Plus?

                                Originally posted by paulgul View Post
                                Around 25 to 30 feet of RG6 cable

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