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expierence with receiver Navilock GNS ADS-B ??

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  • expierence with receiver Navilock GNS ADS-B ??

    Has anyone experience with this receiver:

    http://www.navilock.de/produkte/F_84...setLanguage=en

    Many questions...

    What kind of antenna-connector is there?

    How is the sensitivity?

    Can I use this stick for provide the data on fligthradar24?

    The price is in comparison to SBS1 very cheap... round about 180.- Euro.

    Thanks for help in advance...

  • #2
    I have tried 3 of them and sent them back as they didn't work.
    We can recommend 4 receivers, and specially the first 2 are very good.
    http://www.flightradar24.com/hardware

    Comment


    • #3
      SBS-1 is out of my limit.... :-(

      The Microreceiver V3 is in my limit.....maybe I will try this...

      Have an Antenna 15m above ground....

      Can I see the locations of receivers in use? Want to know, is here in the near a receiver? I'am located in Chemnitz Germany.

      Comment


      • #4
        If price is a major concern, and you know a bit of Linux - you could always go the SDR dongle route. I get decent coverage out of mine, about 120nm reliably, with contacts out to 220nm in some directions. However, I'm in very light airspace for ADS-B - something dedicated in Germany will likely decode better, due to the larger amount of traffic. I will post a polar map comparison once I get my Beast up and running for about a week.

        This will run $20-35USD (I'd assume similar in the EU), and will require a host computer running linux - it will NOT be a "works out of box" type of setup. Basic Linux experience needed (if you know what screen is and use it regularly, you're probably fine)

        http://www.radarspotters.eu/forum/in...p?topic=6974.0

        As always, antenna placement and quality cabling will be probably more important to your overall performance than anything else.

        Comment


        • #5
          There's a very good message thread on the Radarspotting.com forum about using DVB-T "dongles".

          I ordered one yesterday and will be trying it out myself.

          http://radarspotting.com/forum/index...oard,51.0.html
          Mike


          www.radarspotting.com

          Radarspotting since 2005

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike View Post
            I have tried 3 of them and sent them back as they didn't work.
            We can recommend 4 receivers, and specially the first 2 are very good.
            http://www.flightradar24.com/hardware
            Mike you made a mistake number 4 is not a receiver !
            Can you please get in touch with me because of the Navilock receiver info@gns-gmbh.com
            I would like to make some investigations regarding this receivers.
            Normally they must work like the GNS 5890 receivers because they are similar.
            And they are pretty good regarding frame-rate and coverage.

            Regarding SDR dongle:
            SDR dongle will loose a lot of frames. The tuners are not fast enough for decoding all frame in time.

            regards

            Bill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by yakini View Post
              Has anyone experience with this receiver:

              http://www.navilock.de/produkte/F_84...setLanguage=en

              Many questions...

              What kind of antenna-connector is there?

              How is the sensitivity?

              Can I use this stick for provide the data on fligthradar24?

              The price is in comparison to SBS1 very cheap... round about 180.- Euro.

              Thanks for help in advance...

              Can I use this stick for provide the data on fligthradar24?

              The price is in comparison to SBS1 very cheap... round about 180.- Euro.

              Thanks for help in advance...[/QUOTE]

              Dear Yakini,

              I and also a lot of other users are feeding data into FR24 with the GNS5890 which is pretty the same receiver then the NAVILOCK receiver.
              I believe that something is going wrong on Mikeīs side, because of my experiences the receiver works extremly well.
              very high framerate nice coverage 300km no problem no donought effect. The receiver comes with full version PP and is ready to feed into FR24.
              The connector is MMCX so you need an SMA to MMCX adaptor. If you have an antenna 15m over ground please take care to the length of the antenna cable.
              If you use RG58 cable you will loose min. 1db/m that means you will loose a lot. Better use a low loss cable or connect the ADS-B receiver directly to the Antenna and use a long USB cable to connect the receiver with your PC. I have tested a 5m USB cable which works perfectly and I have no lost on the antenna connection

              Regards

              Bill
              RADAR: T-EDDK6
              ADS-B: GNS5890
              Antenna: GP 1090
              Software: Planeplotter

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bill2002 View Post
                Mike you made a mistake number 4 is not a receiver !
                Regarding SDR dongle:
                SDR dongle will loose a lot of frames. The tuners are not fast enough for decoding all frame in time.

                regards
                Bill
                Can you back this up with numbers? I hear this trotted out a lot, and it's actually somewhat correct, but a misleading statement based on my real life testing.

                If you're in Europe or near a busy airport - go for the dedicated hardware. You'll need it in order to not drop a large amount of frames.

                If you're in the US or another location where the traffic is sparse, I really see no benefit in going for the dedicated receivers.

                My RTL dongles seem to get roughly the same range as the Mode-S Beast does, but they top out at around 15 frames per second. The Beast can do 1000+.

                It's all in selecting the right tool for the job. In my specific situation, the expensive kit is simply not worth the additional expense. If there were more than 3 or 4 aircraft in range at a time, then I'd of course need something more appropriate.

                Personally, I'm deploying the cheap dongles around the US Midwest (yay having nerdy friends!) where all you get are 3 or 4 overflights at a time, and will be deploying a Beast station in an area that gets more than a handful of airplanes in range at a time. This allowed me to afford 7 stations, vs. 2 - thus expanding my coverage by thousands of square miles. Win/win in my book!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Bill2002.

                  Tell us, are you working for GNS by any chance?

                  As for the DVB-T "dongles", mine was despatched yesterday so I'll soon be able to make comparisons with the SBS range, RadarBox, Beast and GNS5890.
                  Mike


                  www.radarspotting.com

                  Radarspotting since 2005

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Anmer View Post
                    Hi Bill2002.

                    Tell us, are you working for GNS by any chance?

                    As for the DVB-T "dongles", mine was despatched yesterday so I'll soon be able to make comparisons with the SBS range, RadarBox, Beast and GNS5890.
                    Yes you are right I am working for GNS and I am one of the developers.
                    In the beginning we tried out the SPRUT design, make an easy PCB take and PIC micro ect....
                    similar to what Micro ADS-B is doing, also we use the ADS-B Scope. Then I buy a Beast receiver.....
                    Yipp thatīs it high data rate and very large range. So I make an comparison between Sprut design (Micro ADS-B)
                    Beast and RadarBox.....and the winner was .... 1. Beast 2. RadarBox 3. Micro ADS-B
                    So our first design was also 3. place because of using Sprut firmware......not a good result :-(
                    So we make the decision to write our own Firmware in Assembler and we also test highspeed framerate.
                    I can say that we now can easily handle same framerates than the Beast do.
                    By the way DVB-T dongles can not handle high datarates and they will loose a lot of data.
                    ok.....
                    after that I make some testīs in the US .....
                    What a shame near Airfields no reception it was very horrible for me and very disappointing.
                    Back to Germany in the lab I found out that the hardware design (Sprut) isnīt good enough.
                    So we make a complete new hardware concept.
                    Now we have very good results no more dounought effect, high framerate high range.
                    For the new Version 4 which will be delivered right now we made some major changings for the package.
                    There is a full Version of PP in every package and we make a new mag. antenna.

                    During my new Test the Top 5 is now:
                    1. Beast
                    2. GNS 5890
                    3. Radarbox
                    4. Micro AdsB
                    5. RTK DVB-T dongle

                    I am preparing a video to show how we test and what I do during test.
                    By the way I have tested during my flight from HK to Taiwan insight of the plane.
                    Very very nice to see whats going on on the HK airport. I could see and indicate every plane besight us.
                    During flight I was able to track my plane and I could see planes surrounding us. I only have to place the
                    antenna near window......I was very impressed about the results.

                    Why is the Beast on first place???
                    Itīs because they are able to handle overlapping frames much more better as we do. Because of the simple design
                    no one exept the Beast which have a FPGA DSP concept

                    regards

                    Bill2002

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for the confirmation that you are working for GNS.

                      Why didn't you include the SBS-3 in your comparative tests? And what results were you comparing?

                      In all my tests, the only valid result is how many aircraft can be tracked off the same antenna. So far, the SBS-3 and Beast are way ahead of everything else.
                      Mike


                      www.radarspotting.com

                      Radarspotting since 2005

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mike View Post
                        I have tried 3 of them and sent them back as they didn't work.
                        We can recommend 4 receivers, and specially the first 2 are very good.
                        http://www.flightradar24.com/hardware
                        G'Day Mike.
                        Can you tell me what type & gender is the antenna socket on the 5890 please ?
                        Thanks, Greg.
                        GNS 5890 (German), 2 x DVB-T Dongles (China / USA), Mobile One SAN-1090 external base antenna (Australian), Heliax coax (USA).
                        HDSDR, Plane Plotter (full version, but not working), adsbScope, Virtual Radar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GregHudson View Post
                          G'Day Mike.
                          Can you tell me what type & gender is the antenna socket on the 5890 please ?
                          It's an MCX female connector:

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCX_connector
                          Mike


                          www.radarspotting.com

                          Radarspotting since 2005

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            G'Day All.
                            Ignorance is bliss - which is why I'm so happy... BUT...

                            With regards to DVB-T dongles not being able to receive data fast enough, I find that difficult to understand.
                            They are built to receive Digital TV Broadcasts, which, I believe range from 1.5 to 3 Gbps depending on broadcast type.
                            I believe each ADS-B transponder is transmitting at 1Mbps which, by my calculation, means we should be able to ident 1,500 to 3000 aircraft (visible to antenna) at any one time.
                            (source - ADS-B for Dummies by European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation)

                            As stated, I'm ignorant... But assuming my research is correct, and a laptop can display a Full HDTV signal, it should have no trouble decoding data streams from several hundred aircraft simultaneously.

                            Comments please anyone ?

                            Regards, Greg.
                            Last edited by GregHudson; 2012-11-27, 20:40.
                            GNS 5890 (German), 2 x DVB-T Dongles (China / USA), Mobile One SAN-1090 external base antenna (Australian), Heliax coax (USA).
                            HDSDR, Plane Plotter (full version, but not working), adsbScope, Virtual Radar.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Greg....
                              this really a good question.
                              I have seen some recommendations for DVB-T dongles.
                              Itīs correct that you can receive data with SDR dongles on 1090 Mhz.
                              I made also some experiments and first I do not understand why the framerate is sooo bad.
                              Add the end it has something to do with the concept of the receiver or better with the modulation.
                              ADS-B is PWM modulated.
                              Mostly for DVB-T QPSK modulation is used means there is more information (higher bitrate) inside the signal
                              IQ receiver are used ect. the PLL inside can be slow, but for ADS-B you need a very very fast PLL
                              actual there is also no SDR on the market which has such kind of fast PLL.
                              Thats the reason why the ADS-B receiver concept should be a non PLL design.
                              So with SDR concept you will loose a lot of information (frames)
                              and the framerate for SDR based tuners is only 5f/s.
                              So reception of ADS-B data with SDR design is a kind of playing lotto ;-)....you can be lucky if you receive some frames.

                              regards

                              Bill

                              Comment

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