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  • Originally posted by peterhr View Post
    Neat!

    Now if a shot length of stiff plastic pipe was tightly (gled) unto the bottle neck - it would provide something that could be used to fit the assembly to a pole.

    I'm not really thinking of a tower or a mast here - someone who has invested th oney for one of those won't seriously be making a cantenna, this will be for the guy to fix to the top of the TV antenna pole.
    Very good idea. Deserves giving a try.
    Your concept in picture below - Not actually built, assembled in Photoshop, using independent photos of Cantenna, Water Bottle, and PVC Pipe.

    Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-18, 16:15.

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    • Originally posted by abcd567 View Post
      Another of 1001 ways....
      Just a concept...very easy to make, provides rain water protection, but bottle will blow away with wind unless glued to the Coke can.
      Drill some holes in the bottle and the can and pop a cable tie through doesn't need to be tight (what do you call them - zip ties?)

      The open bottom allows ventilation around the amplifier - needed on a warm day - but if you have a foggy day then water could be a problem, so it would probably still be a good idea protect the amplifier maybe by wrapping it in self-amalgamating tape.

      The inverted bottle could cook the amplifier on a sunny day in it's personal unventilated greenhouse.

      If using cable ties to fix the can to the open ended bottle, they could also pass through the short plastic tube to provide a fixing.

      ---

      I now have my can, amplifier, voltage inserter, power supply - need to sort out some connectors and a bottle

      Comment


      • Wot no
        Cable ties
        Tie wraps
        Zip ties ?
        Best invention since the hammer.
        Have fun
        Terry

        Comment


        • I have replaced pepsi/coke aluminum can (66mm dia) with a larger can (100mm dia). First 1/2 hr run shows some improvement in range. Needs longer, say 24 hrs run to get a clearer picture.

          Since can's circular bottom acts as ground plane, and smaller dia ground plane pulls down the lobe, more planes flying low/on ground are picked up, and long (horizon) range is reduced.

          Increasing dia of can will provide better ground plane, and hence it's lobes are less pulled down. It should therefore theoretically pick more distant planes and lesser low flying/on ground planes.

          I want to see how far my larger dia cantenna's results conform with theory.
          Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-19, 12:52.

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          • After about 10 hrs trial run of 100 mm dia cantenna, the maximum range figures are:
            With Pepsi/Coke 66mm dia can = 450 km (250 nautical miles)
            With Large 100mm dia can = 550 km (300 nautical miles)

            Range Plot 100mm dia Cantenna (Amplifier inside the can + 50 ft RG6 Coax between antenna & receiver)
            Very few aircrafts at this hour of night (about 2 AM)


            Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-19, 06:18.

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            • All this does make me wonder just what we would be able to do with the magmount antenna that comes with the dongle, by:
              * tuning it's length (trial and error)
              * feeding it to an amplifier
              * sticking it on a 100mm (or bigger) can with a dongle and RasPi inside(using POE)
              and so on.

              Comment


              • The 100mm dia Cantenna With Amplilifier inside.
                While taking this photo, the 66mm dia Coke can was kept at left for size comparison.
                The Cantenna was hooked to receiver & desktop located in another room, using 50 ft (15 meters) of RG6 Coax.


                The can's circular bottom is made of tin (steel sheet), and the cylindrical wall is made of cardboard with aluminum foil lining inside. I checked continuity, and found the aluminum lining is electrically connected to the can's circular metallic bottom. I have checked many other cardboard cans, but they did not show electrical continuity between foil & bottom, or even between two points on the foil, possibly because their foil lining was plastic film coated.

                Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-19, 13:09.

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                • Photo of my cantenna. It is a 70mm baked bean can and installed in a Ginger Beer bottle. I managed to fit the bottom half of the bottle inside the top piece then ran a bit of insulating tape round the joint. I'm sure it will fall apart at the first drop of rain!

                  cantenna.jpg

                  It gets a max range of 170nm but does pick up helicopters on the ground from my local aerodrome which my Franklin doesn't.

                  Following ab cd's idea of going larger with the ground plane, I spent an hour in the local supermarket with a ruler and magnet. I resisted the temptation to buy a load of tinned stuff I don't need. I did, however, find a metal container of coffee from Gaggia which has a 100mm diameter base.

                  Coffee anyone?
                  Last edited by trigger; 2014-08-19, 18:57.
                  T-EGUB1

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                  • I've been playing with making a Franklin from 3mm copper wire. I took the Earth wire out of some 30 amp cable and twisted it with a drill to make it a bit stiffer. This is the result.
                    3mm Franklin.jpg

                    I found that the stubs opened considerably when it was hanging up due to the weight, so I popped some small cable ties round them.
                    Franklin stub.jpg

                    Testing from the ground shows it works but not as well as the one I made from solid 1.5mm wire.

                    I've also had a thought about the kinking problem with 5mm tube. How about this?
                    5mm pipe loop.jpg
                    Cut the tube to 138mm straight lengths and solder the pieces together. The problem I see is that the wire is 3mm diameter and the tube is 5mm diameter. What that will do to SWR and Gain I don't know.
                    T-EGUB1

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                    • The stub gaps are related to diameter of wire/tube of which the stub is made. The gap bcomes smaller with smaller dia wire/tube.

                      Dia of vertical limb's wire/tube has little influence on stub gap.

                      As crude rule of thumb the impedance matching stub's gap lies between 1.5 x dia of wire/tube and 2 x dia of wire/tube.

                      As crude rule of thumb the phasing stub's gap lie between 2 x dia of wire/tube and 3 x dia of wire/tube.

                      Optimum dimensions are by simulation.
                      Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-19, 22:23.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by trigger View Post
                        Photo of my cantenna. It is a 70mm baked bean can and installed in a Ginger Beer bottle. I managed to fit the bottom half of the bottle inside the top piece then ran a bit of insulating tape round the joint. I'm sure it will fall apart at the first drop of rain!

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]4616[/ATTACH]
                        Use adhesive to join two parts of the bottle. Tape alone will not hold.

                        If your Amplifier is not inside the can, but is located inside the building, no need for enclosure. Just apply a sealant (like silicone or epoxy) at root of whip around the f-female connector, and you are done.

                        Originally posted by trigger View Post
                        Coffee anyone?
                        Thank you very much. Yes please, extra-large, double sugar, double cream, attach to email & send. Thanks : )

                        Comment


                        • Strange!
                          Today I repeated 12 hr trial run of 66mm dia Cantenna (Coke Can), and the results are very strange.
                          Three days ago it gave me maximum 250 nautical miles, and today 300+ nautical miles, same or slightly better than 100mm Cantenna's yesterday's results.

                          Is this variation due to weather? Temperature & humidity were higher today & yesterday, compared to three days ago.
                          Now I have to repeat trial of both 66mm & 100mm after couple of days to be sure weather or not 100mm's range better than 66mm's range.

                          Unfortunately I did not take screenshot of range plot of 66mm's run three days ago which gave a max range of 250 nautical miles.
                          However yesterdays 100mm & today's 66mm range screenshots are posted below.

                          Screenshot 1 of 2: August 19/20, 2014: Range Plot 66mm dia Cantenna (Amplifier inside the can + 50 ft RG6 Coax between antenna & receiver)


                          .

                          Screenshot 2 of 2: August 18/19, 2014: Range Plot 100mm dia Cantenna (Amplifier inside the can + 50 ft RG6 Coax between antenna & receiver)
                          Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-20, 06:12.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by abcd567 View Post
                            I have replaced pepsi/coke aluminum can (66mm dia) with a larger can (100mm dia). First 1/2 hr run shows some improvement in range. Needs longer, say 24 hrs run to get a clearer picture.

                            Since can's circular bottom acts as ground plane, and smaller dia ground plane pulls down the lobe, more planes flying low/on ground are picked up, and long (horizon) range is reduced.

                            Increasing dia of can will provide better ground plane, and hence it's lobes are less pulled down. It should therefore theoretically pick more distant planes and lesser low flying/on ground planes.

                            I want to see how far my larger dia cantenna's results conform with theory.
                            Hi, by increasing the diameter of the ground plane you will also change the swr of the antenna. If you alter the ground plane you will need to also retune the vertical for lowest swr.
                            From my cb radio days, if you bend the ground plane radials down - 45 deg or so it will lower the angle of radiation. Horizontal ground radials lifts the angle of radiation. But whatever adjustments are done, the vertical will need re-tuning. Also placing the antenna inside a plastic bottle will detune it, same as placing inside pvc pipe - it will need to be retuned.
                            Mike

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by trigger View Post
                              I've been playing with making a Franklin from 3mm copper wire. I took the Earth wire out of some 30 amp cable and twisted it with a drill to make it a bit stiffer. This is the result.
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]4617[/ATTACH]

                              I found that the stubs opened considerably when it was hanging up due to the weight, so I popped some small cable ties round them.
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]4618[/ATTACH]

                              Testing from the ground shows it works but not as well as the one I made from solid 1.5mm wire.

                              I've also had a thought about the kinking problem with 5mm tube. How about this?
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]4619[/ATTACH]
                              Cut the tube to 138mm straight lengths and solder the pieces together. The problem I see is that the wire is 3mm diameter and the tube is 5mm diameter. What that will do to SWR and Gain I don't know.
                              Good and neat work. You are putting in considerable effort. I am sure you will ultimately get some very good results.

                              .

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YWYY View Post
                                Hi, by increasing the diameter of the ground plane you will also change the swr of the antenna. If you alter the ground plane you will need to also retune the vertical for lowest swr.
                                From my cb radio days, if you bend the ground plane radials down - 45 deg or so it will lower the angle of radiation. Horizontal ground radials lifts the angle of radiation. But whatever adjustments are done, the vertical will need re-tuning. Also placing the antenna inside a plastic bottle will detune it, same as placing inside pvc pipe - it will need to be retuned.
                                Mike
                                Thanks for the very useful information. Yes the SWR & Gain are very sensetive to shape & dimensions of antenna.
                                The DIY antennas - CoCos, Franklins, & now Cantenna - are all leading to one disheartening conclusion: The DIY antenna is a Dark Art, a shot in dark.
                                Last edited by abcd567; 2014-08-20, 17:16.

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