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  • Ressy
    replied
    Originally posted by SpaxmoidJAm View Post

    AIS is a completely different frequency and easier to pick up and process, it surprising how much dearer the parts are when you go up in frequency. Also things like using a proper FPGA rather than a PIC means the price difference of 2 to 20 alone. Its not hard to see how these add up to a costlier unit.
    I dont know, I use to be a radio tech before I moved to IT some 20 plus years ago, and the components were no different in price over here, as for easier to pick up signal? you're right in so far as you have a whopping antenna, the smaller the freq, the larger the antenna required, eg: try using one of those tv dongle antennas at a fair distance from a TV transmitter, its useless, yet the same antenna picks up ADSB signals for greater range - even with lower altitude aircraft, again, because the tiny size, means its designed for it, thats why VHF marine antennas are about 2.4 to 3 metres in length, with some, like used in marine rescue bases being 5.5 metres.

    Infact, that tiny 10cm antenna taped to top of my ant base (mast was lowered 10cm to accomadate test), using an active USB cable, performs far better than my 15 metre rg6 quad into a 6dbi antenna, since there is zero insertion loss.

    Actually, since its just started winter here, and the coldest outside nights we see is no less than 7 or 8c with more typical of 9-14, and I don't expect much rain for a couple of months, I might even throw it back up for while when I get a chance

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  • SpaxmoidJAm
    replied
    The radarcape doesn't have a pre amplifier in the sense that all frequencies are amplified, it does have amplifier in the filter stage to boost the signal AFTER filtering. It is essentially a tweaked mode-s beast. http://wiki.modesbeast.com/Mode-S_Beast:System_Design

    this is a picture of beast board http://ads-b.ca/fa/img_9526.htm Happens to be what flight aware use in there boxes.
    this is a picture of a radarcape http://ads-b.ca/radio-board.htm now although the layout is slightly different you can see that it is the same circuit.

    AIS is a completely different frequency and easier to pick up and process, it surprising how much dearer the parts are when you go up in frequency. Also things like using a proper FPGA rather than a PIC means the price difference of 2 to 20 alone. Its not hard to see how these add up to a costlier unit.
    Last edited by SpaxmoidJAm; 2015-06-19, 16:46.

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  • Ressy
    replied
    Originally posted by Birdie View Post
    I paid SGD 1,200 ( USD 1,050 - include our 7 % GST and high cost of UPS services from USA ) for a piece of crap - Radarbox 3D.
    oh, you don't like it? not faulty unit is it? I cant understand why some people say they are so sensitive, surely something that apparently underwent some costly certification, must be robust to be passed.

    But yeah the cost is crazy.. especially when you can get an Rpi for $50AU or so, build it up with the case, a gps a pre amp, tv stick...

    A few people reckon the distance is greater on fr24box by about 15-20% over tv stick, but since radarcape has inbuilt preamp that answers the question as to why (even though in RF world, any amplification MUST be done at the antenna, else you also amplify noise), since the marine (AIS) equivalent to radarcape units can be bought off the shelf in AU for under $500 - there is no possible reason in hell (or on earth) that ADSB units should cost more, let alone twice (The AU dollar value is even less than when I posted that, so we'd probably be looking well over $AU1K now.

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  • Birdie
    replied
    Originally posted by Ressy View Post
    OK, EU VAT does not apply to non EU member states, so that 800 or so becomes 650 odd, into AU dollars becomes 980 odd at current exchange rate, much better than 1500 odd, but still, hard to justify, even without shipping costs with insurance which will be another fair slug.
    I paid SGD 1,200 ( USD 1,050 - include our 7 % GST and high cost of UPS services from USA ) for a piece of crap - Radarbox 3D.

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  • SoCalBrian
    replied
    Radarcape Online Box Demo
    http://radarcape-demo.jetvision.de/

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  • Ressy
    replied
    OK, EU VAT does not apply to non EU member states, so that 800 or so becomes 650 odd, into AU dollars becomes 980 odd at current exchange rate, much better than 1500 odd, but still, hard to justify, even without shipping costs with insurance which will be another fair slug.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ressy
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike View Post
    1) Gunther is building and selling small numbers of receivers. As everyone know lower production volumes = higher production price.
    2) Gunther does not have the intention to make it a volume product. It's intended to be the best product on the marker for people who want to pay for it.
    3) The price is not just for the receiver but also includes support & updates, power supply, GPS antenna, ADS-B antenna, network cable, antenna cable and VAT.
    4) The Radarcape is not just another ADS-B receiver but a high-end product with built in lightning protection and signal amplifier.
    5) The Radarcape is CE/FCC tested and approved. The cost of such test and approval is very high.
    1 and 2, would have more impact on price, yes, but since he's made thousands for you alone, that's kind of bulk in my books
    3 software updates for basically open source? power supply 8 dollars, gps ant 50 tops, network cable less than 1 dollar (I'm a systems/network admin I make my own, but even in shops, 2 mtr cables bout 3 dollars, lightning protection located on the device in such a small size, wouldnt be much good on adirect hit, antenna feedline gas arresters are better (now there is a cost lol), and sig amp also cheap (I used to be a radio tech and built RX sig amps for UHF two way radio/CB/scanners, bout 25 bucks in parts back then)
    5, I guess this is a big cost as well

    either way, no way in hell could I justify that price which I concede may seem reasonable in Europe, but convert it into Australian dollars, or NZ dollars, is well beyond any far reach of justification, when the 10 dollar stick works just as well), it all comes down to the receivers sensitivity and selectivity, and having any amplification at the base unit, amplifies noise as well as signal so in some cases can cancel out advantages, especially in high RF areas.

    Seems like someone needs to talk comar into doing adsb, because the price would be likely comparable to AIS versions and $600 (for the 300n - as SoCalBrian pointed out the older version 200n here worth 550 odd is no longer current production) is better than $AU 1500.

    Also not up to things in Europe with the govt VAT, doesnt that only apply to those in EU? So if sales to non EU, that does still apply? I know some places in some states in the U.S. explicitly say at checkout time the VAT is removed for overseas buyers, but U.S. might have different laws with relation to the tax than EU.

    I might look into that one, since Germany has the best data protection laws in the world, we actually have an offsite server there for DNS and mail backup - I should seek out an invoice and answer my own question

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  • Mike
    replied
    Originally posted by Ressy View Post
    Really late to thread, but the price? oh my f..... ..... ..... ......... ....... ...... ....... !!!
    converted to AU, thats almost 1500 based on website cost off 800eu ... _insert more swear words_

    yet an all-in-one self contained unit with dual receivers for AIS (comar slr200n) is only around 550 (640 with gps).. how the hell can radarcape price be justified?????????

    and i doubt its performance is going to be 150 times better than the 9.95 dvb-t stick I got from Hong Kong plugged into a normal linux box _or_ an Rpi.
    1) Gunther is building and selling small numbers of receivers. As everyone know lower production volumes = higher production price.
    2) Gunther does not have the intention to make it a volume product. It's intended to be the best product on the marker for people who want to pay for it.
    3) The price is not just for the receiver but also includes support & updates, power supply, GPS antenna, ADS-B antenna, network cable, antenna cable and VAT.
    4) The Radarcape is not just another ADS-B receiver but a high-end product with built in lightning protection and signal amplifier.
    5) The Radarcape is CE/FCC tested and approved. The cost of such test and approval is very high.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoCalBrian
    replied
    Found the photo of that new metal box enclosure. The photo is in the comment area.
    https://m.facebook.com/comment/repli...CW6VyLixj2n7rv

    Leave a comment:


  • 1090 MHz
    replied
    Here's a look inside these boxes....

    Flightaware http://ads-b.ca/fa/
    Radarcape http://ads-b.ca/radar-cape-apart.htm

    Flightaware told me a few months ago that they are soon introducing a new radio with an all metal enclosure.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ressy
    replied
    Originally posted by SoCalBrian View Post
    Both great units.

    I'm using both (SLR200N & Radarcape)

    P.S SLR200N isn't being made anymore. Another updated model took its place.
    thanks for update, and yes comar is a nifty lil no fuss unit, its still available from a few places out here and in the U.S.
    I was just searching around to find a low cost adsb all-in-one, looks like I'll keep it as it is, if radarcape was similarly priced, I'd likely give it serious thought, but I can fly 1st class to Germany from here for less than the price of that unit

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  • SoCalBrian
    replied
    Both great units.

    I'm using both (SLR200N & Radarcape)

    P.S SLR200N isn't being made anymore. Another updated model took its place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ressy
    replied
    Really late to thread, but the price? oh my f..... ..... ..... ......... ....... ...... ....... !!!
    converted to AU, thats almost 1500 based on website cost off 800eu ... _insert more swear words_

    yet an all-in-one self contained unit with dual receivers for AIS (comar slr200n) is only around 550 (640 with gps).. how the hell can radarcape price be justified?????????

    and i doubt its performance is going to be 150 times better than the 9.95 dvb-t stick I got from Hong Kong plugged into a normal linux box _or_ an Rpi.
    Last edited by Ressy; 2014-12-27, 04:12. Reason: typos

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  • peterhr
    replied
    Originally posted by 1090 MHz View Post
    I just received a flight aware box so I can now answer your question. They are using a Raspberry Pi hardwired by USB to a MODE-S-BEAST Mark II radio board.
    There still seems to be a cost imbalance using a Pi ($40) and a Beast ($400), but I do suppose the beast gives the input sensitivity but for less expense than the RadarCape - $400 is more than I'd spend.

    Just been looking at the Odroid U3 - looks v. Interesting (might get one!), I wonder if it would have the same problem I had with the BeagleBone black - that the USB did not seem to have enough power capacity to run the NooElec (sp?) dongle - and would need a powered USB hub in the config, the smaller square dongles don't get as warm so may be better in that respect.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1090 MHz
    replied
    Originally posted by peterhr View Post
    We know what is in the rsdarcape, I meant the new flight aware box.
    I just received a flight aware box so I can now answer your question. They are using a Raspberry Pi hardwired by USB to a MODE-S-BEAST Mark II radio board.

    Leave a comment:

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