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FR 24 Receiver survived Lightning Strike

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  • peterhr
    replied
    Is it safe to assume that insurance companies will do what they can to try to avoid paying out - even if the ADSB antenna is no more of a hazard than a TV antenna fixed to the highest part of the building,

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  • Kemistry
    replied
    So assuming lightning damage cannot be avoided without serious earthing, how many feeders have installed their antenna to local code earthing standards? Since many of us rely on our residential insurance to cover the risk of consequential household damage or public liability after a strike to our antenna, is it safe to assume insurance companies may not pay for these claims if our antenna does not have code-compliant earthing? Does FR24 have an insurance policy to cover this risk for us? Does this policy only apply to FR24 owned receivers and T- feeders are on-their-own?

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  • peterhr
    replied
    You really don't want a lightening strike to go through your house wiring, where the insulation gets burned from the conductors in the conduits and the power outlets get blown from the housings fixed in the walls (probably) due to the explosive heating of the air in conduits ... never mind the destruction of all electrical items plugged in at the time.

    Major work replacing the wiring that could involve replacing conduits too if the old wiring is welded to them or the new cable cant be drawn through.

    Fitting an earth conductor and spike is just simpler.

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  • mmckenna
    replied
    Lightning travels thousands of feet through the air with millions of volts and tens of thousands of amps. A thin layer of plastic, fiberglass or other insulator is NOT going to stop it from finding a path to ground. If you really want to prove me wrong, put on a pair of dishwashing gloves and go climb up a power pole, grab onto the conductor and let me know how that works out for you.
    Think about that.


    An air gap between your antenna mast any anything else conductive is not going to stop it.

    Lightning will find a path to ground. That might be your mast, or using your antenna, coax, receiver, power supply and electrical wiring.
    The trick here is providing a -SAFE- path to ground. A safe path isn't through your coax to your receiver. A safe path is a heavy ground conductor that runs as straight as possible to a ground rod. The National Electric Code here in the US is quite clear about that. Any internal protection in the receiver is not intended for lightning strikes. Think about the millions of volts and amps involved, a small SMT component on a PC board isn't going to stop it.

    Not grounding your mast isn't going to protect you. Nothing is going to stop a direct strike, not even gas tube suppressors. All they do is help reduce the damage from nearby strikes.

    Added in edit…
    In the USA, the National Electric Code, part of the National Fire Protection Association, requires antenna mast grounding in Section 810. While the NEC only applies in the USA, you'll likely find that most countries have similar standards.

    "The antenna mast that supports radio, HAM, television and satellite receiving antennas must be grounded [810.15]. In addition, each conductor (coaxial, control, and signal conductors) of a lead-in from an "outdoor antenna" must be provided with a listed antenna discharge unit (grounding block). The antenna discharge unit shall be grounded and it must be located outside or inside as near as practicable to the entrance of the conductors to the building and it must not be located near combustible material [810.20]."

    Electrical Ground, RF Ground and Lighting Ground are all different things, and shouldn't be confused. A proper grounding system for all three are often combined to provide equal potential between all, however the requirements are different.
    Last edited by mmckenna; 2014-02-25, 06:29.

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  • Kemistry
    replied
    I don't have a broker - I deal only with the actual insurance company.
    It does sound like an untested risk. Hope we are covered.
    Does anyone have any actual experience with this?

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  • 1090 MHz
    replied
    Originally posted by Kemistry View Post
    Could an insurance company consider that an FR24 supplied antenna (not owned by householder) is a commercial activity and reject a lightning damage or public liability claim to the house?
    Ask your Insurance broker and see what he says.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kemistry
    replied
    Could an insurance company consider that an FR24 supplied antenna (not owned by householder) is a commercial activity and reject a lightning damage or public liability claim to the house?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1090 MHz
    replied
    Originally posted by paradiselost View Post

    My FR24 box is housed in an unearthed electrical box along side of my earthed mast. The FR24 antenna via the N connector is connected to the mast, earthed or unearthed.
    That's a good idea, however you still have network and power running from that box to inside your home. Keep in mind that no ground is a perfect ground and even if 99.9% of the million volt strike gets directed to that outside ground rod, 1000 volts may still find it's way in over the network cable, enough voltage to do damage to your homes router, modem, switches, etc. So a surge arrestor on that network cable entering your home from the FR24 would be a good idea... another idea would be to use WiFi as a means of isolation for the network ... you also have the power line to protect.

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  • 1090 MHz
    replied
    Insurance companies require that you install and ground all antenna equipment in accordance with all local building and electrical codes.

    Hosting an FR24 is not running a commercial enterprise out of your home.

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  • Amper
    replied
    Your radar is the same thing as your TV/SAT anntena/receiver is.

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  • Kemistry
    replied
    In Australia, and I am not sure about other countries, residential insurance companies request that a home owner discloses if they are using their premises for any business or commercial purpose. I think they expect to charge higher premiums for equivalent insurance cover if commercial activities are being undertaken. Does anyone know if feeding to FR24 constitutes commercial activity for insurance purposes? I would assume that any sort of money-making activity could be deemed commercial and while we, as home-owners (or tenants), are not making any money from this activity, insurance companies are known to be a little pedantic with their policies to avoid claims. I wonder that they could assert that FR24 feeding activity is a commercial enterprise and was not disclosed to them before a claim is made. Are we open for them to refuse a claim for, say, lightning damage to an ABS-B antenna and other consequential damage to the home or public liability? Has anyone already had discussion with their insurance company over this? Maybe the team at FR24 has researched this but wonder if they have resources to consider all the Product Disclosure Statements for all insurance companies in all countries? Hence my request for wider general experiences.

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  • peterhr
    replied
    My mast isn't earthed presently, but lack of earthing is one of the reasons I've not got around to raising it higher yet.

    The electric field at at the top of a mast when there's lightening about can thousands of volts per meter, and any unearthed mast will in fact be earthed (as far as voltages involved with lightening are concerned) by the equipment connected to it. Lightening will have no problem finding a ground via the equipment ... all you can hope to do is provide an easier path (mast earthed to rod driven into the ground) ... or have something taller nearby that is more likely to take the strike.

    Leave a comment:


  • paradiselost
    replied
    Lightning Rod Theory....Ben Franklin et al

    Originally posted by delcomp View Post
    My Antenne,. has been on the roof for many years now,. And has also seen many Lightning storms thro,. without any Strikes....

    My Mast,. Has Not got any Earthing strap attached to it.

    If it did,.! then it would be an attraction to Lightning,. And As before,. Lightning looks for the shortest way to earth..
    Earthing masts is no different than the electric company running earthing wires from the top of power poles down to the footing.

    Look at history and theory of lightning protection and you will find opinion here does not match up with fact. May I suggest:

    http://www.fi.edu/learn/sci-tech/lig...er-electricity

    To not earth maximises damage if lightning does strike getting into your house wiring and vaporizing it and any devices connected to it. I have seen the effects of lightning hitting unearthed antenna masts and it isn't pretty.

    My FR24 box is housed in an unearthed electrical box along side of my earthed mast. The FR24 antenna via the N connector is connected to the mast, earthed or unearthed.

    You make the choice...will it be fact or opinion?

    Lightning arrestor strips generally are one time protection insofar as the devices are designed to act quickly to open the circuit but the electronic circuitry inside is consumed in the process. Also lightning strips don't work if connected to an ungrounded receptacle. Don't expect to be protected if you cut off the ground pin in the plug.

    John

    F-RPVD1
    Last edited by paradiselost; 2014-02-21, 18:44.

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  • delcomp
    replied
    Food for Thought..

    My Antenne,. has been on the roof for many years now,. And has also seen many Lightning storms thro,. without any Strikes....

    I have the 1090SJ Antenne up there,. And if you measure with an Ohmsmeter the resistance of the Antenne,. You will find out
    that it is a Short circuit.(DC)

    Lightning,.. Is also DC(= Direct Current),.. And please remember,.. Lightning, always looks for the shortest way to earth..! ! !

    The plastic piping around the Antenne,. Also acts as a protection against weather,. inculding Lightning.

    My Mast,. Has Not got any Earthing strap attached to it.

    If it did,.! then it would be an attraction to Lightning,. And As before,. Lightning looks for the shortest way to earth..

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  • 1090 MHz
    replied
    Originally posted by Lancair70 View Post
    Can you tell me more about 'proper' lightning protection for the antenna outdoors please?

    My TV antenna goes thru a protector, is it a similar device on the antenna ? Where do I get one.
    Here is my Gas filled discharge unit: http://ads-b.ca/img_9398.htm
    Ethernet should also be protected: http://ads-b.ca/img_9401.htm


    Where to get one?
    http://www.terra-wave.com/shop/nstyl...tor-p-508.html
    Last edited by 1090 MHz; 2014-01-24, 03:54.

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