Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Strange observation of flight on map

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Strange observation of flight on map

    Tonight I observed something I hadnt ever noticed previously on the map. Qantas flight QF/QFA551 had completed it's flight from BNE (Brisbane) to SYD (Sydney) as normal. It then flew flight QF/QFA497 from SYD (Sydney) to MEL (Melbourne) but the pilots didnt change the callsign. Hence if you follow the pics in sequence you'll notice the white bar in the blue route section on the info panel move from right to left instead of left to right (backwards) as well as the associated changes in the flight times;

    QF497A.jpgQF497B.jpgQF497C.jpgQF497D.jpgQF497E.jpg

    The bar 'regresses' rather than progresses. I verified the callsign/flight number through Liveatc as it landed at MEL. The no callsign flight heading north out of SYD actually was a flight with no callsign but the no callsign at SYD is that of the ground vehicles. Thought I'd post this out of interest.

    Regards,
    Gregg
    Last edited by fungus; 2013-07-30, 14:50.
    YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

  • #2
    Originally posted by fungus View Post
    Tonight I observed something I hadnt ever noticed previously on the map. Qantas flight QF/QFA551 had completed it's flight from BNE (Brisbane) to SYD (Sydney) as normal. It then flew flight QF/QFA497 from SYD (Sydney) to MEL (Melbourne) but the pilots didnt change the callsign. Hence if you follow the pics in sequence you'll notice the white bar in the blue route section on the info panel move from right to left instead of left to right (backwards) as well as the associated changes in the flight times;

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]2407[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2408[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2409[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2410[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2411[/ATTACH]

    The bar 'regresses' rather than progresses. I verified the callsign/flight number through Liveatc as it landed at MEL. The no callsign flight heading north out of SYD actually was a flight with no callsign but the no callsign at SYD is that of the ground vehicles. Thought I'd post this out of interest.

    Regards,
    Gregg
    It looks like the route is not correct, and aircraft is getting further away from SYD instead of closer (probably changed callsign after take off). And the bar is measuring the distance to SYD.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mike View Post
      It looks like the route is not correct, and aircraft is getting further away from SYD instead of closer (probably changed callsign after take off). And the bar is measuring the distance to SYD.
      Yes spot on Mike . As it turns out, BNE-SYD is very similar in distance to SYD-MEL and it took me until the aircraft landed in MEL to get the correct callsign (I missed it on my scanner departing SYD). I've noticed a few pilot errors lately (as regards the ADS-B transponder callsign) that ATC were correcting previously but dont seem to be at present (hence my comment re the no callsign also- there's been a few of those lately over here). Not a problem with anything to do with FR24, just an interesting occurence.

      Regards,
      Gregg
      Last edited by fungus; 2013-07-31, 14:47.
      YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

      Comment


      • #4
        We will catch up such pilot errors soon, as we are implementing more other matching options beside the callsign.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've noticed that Indigo flight no 6E-358 had broadcast itself as E6-358 many times. Are these kind of mistakes not taken very seriously by authorities? Are they not a safety threat?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by suanlian View Post
            I've noticed that Indigo flight no 6E-358 had broadcast itself as E6-358 many times. Are these kind of mistakes not taken very seriously by authorities? Are they not a safety threat?
            As far as I know ADS-B data is very rarely used around the world. Most ATC still use primary radar. One of the most common problems that I have seen is "GOL airlines" (IATA: GLO) in Brazil using GOL as callsign instead of GLO. I would guess it happens on up to 20% if the flights. It also appears that errors are more common on small aircraft. You seldom see a transatlantic flight with incorrect callsign, but when I watch national turbo trop flights within Sweden up to 10% can have incorrect callsign.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by suanlian View Post
              I've noticed that Indigo flight no 6E-358 had broadcast itself as E6-358 many times. Are these kind of mistakes not taken very seriously by authorities? Are they not a safety threat?
              Suanlian,

              Recently I noticed both on the map and my receiver a couple of small general aviation aircraft (flying VFR locally and squawking 1200) out of Wedderburn airstrip (a small 'strip' south of Sydney) here in Australia and using the same callsign "VH" on their ADS-B transponder. Knowing in the past that Air Services Australia have always been very helpful and do in fact take these matters very seriously I fired off an email to alert them to this issue. The following is part of their response (I've removed some detail that identifies the responder and her position to respect her privacy);

              "Hi Gregg

              Thanks for your inquiry. The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) regulations and published AIP require pilots to correctly enter flight ID.
              Airservices Australia and CASA have programs to identify faulty Flight ID and encourage pilots (and avionics installers) to get it right. Incorrect flight ID will increasingly become more critical. It applies to both ADS-B and also for all Mode S transponders operating in an environment where Mode S radars interrogate Flight ID.

              The information you have provided has also been passed to the appropriate sections in CASA and Airservices.

              Regards,
              A......"


              I was able to identify to them each aircraft registration and had pointed out the very issue of safety that you've raised as regards the potential danger to aircraft in the area which may be equipped with perhaps transponders as simple as having only ADS-B IN capability and I think the response speaks for itself, at least here in Australia. I have also heard on my scanner pilots being advised by ATC to correct their callsign on their ADS-B transponder or to add it in the case of it being missing at times. They are indeed taking the correct use of ADS-B technology very seriously.

              I had identified myself to Air Services as some one not in the industry but simply some one interested in the technology and air safety. The response, I thought given the circumstances, was excellent.

              Something to bear in mind is that the callsign (and other data) comes from the aircraft. There is nothing we as uploaders or FR24 can do to change them, as far as I am aware, but keep in mind Mike's post above re overcoming this issue as far as the FR24 map is concerned and identifying particular aircraft. ADS-B IN/OUT use becomes mandatory in Australia during December this year (see thread http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...e-mandate-2013) and later in other parts of the world so it is still 'early days' in its implementation. Perhaps the flight I observed at the beginning of this thread (QFA551/497) and the one I've just related were simply examples that can 'slip through a crack' due to this being a 'phasing in' period but are still being taken seriously by the authorities when aware of them, and rightly so. These and the one you've identified in your post may also eventually become a thing of the past.

              Regards,
              Gregg
              Last edited by fungus; 2013-08-02, 02:12.
              YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

              Comment

              Working...
              X