FR24 boxes priviledged over other boxes/feeders?

[eddm_muc]

I have noted that since the installation of the first FR24 box F-EDMO1 some days ago in my area, all other feeders T-EDDM1/2/3/4/8/9 are being degraded to serve just tiny bits on the map anymore.
T-EDDM1 which used to be the main feeder for the area is now only showing EDDM ground traffic and some low apron arround EDDM.

I can't help, but this does not look like a coincidence, but being on purpose to use primarily FR24 boxes with a MLAT capability rather than the other feeders...

[Mike]

There is no prioritization based on receiver type or receiver software, only latest data is always used. Please read

http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/3566-FR24feed-software-(The-ONLY-windows-feeder-software-thread!)/page4

http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/3566-FR24feed-software-(The-ONLY-windows-feeder-software-thread!)/page10

But as FR24 receiver is the fastest receiver on the market and no external software is needed to process and upload data, I guess the chance is big that FR24 receiver wins against other receivers.

[eddm_muc]

in other words there is a "prioritation" or lets call it "winner"
only compeeting FR24 boxes will work the way you explained in the above links as of now with the implementation of more and more FR24 boxes.

this will result in all other feeders to be useless at the end of the day and when MLAT is installed all others but FR24 boxes are unwanted anyway

[Mike]

in other words there is a "prioritation" or lets call it "winner"
only compeeting FR24 boxes will work the way you explained in the above links as of now with the implementation of more and more FR24 boxes.
this will result in all other feeders to be useless at the end of the day and when MLAT is installed all others but FR24 boxes are out anyway.

All feeders work as described above.

[eddm_muc]

But as FR24 receiver is the fastest receiver on the market and no external software is needed to process and upload data, I guess the chance is big that FR24 receiver wins against other receivers.

No doubt about this.
Thats all I wanted to say and noted in practical experience

[Mike]

this will result in all other feeders to be useless at the end of the day and when MLAT is installed all others but FR24 boxes are unwanted anyway

ADS-B coverage is not a the same as GSM coverage. There is also another dimension, altitude. Coverage is not only FL350, but it's good to have down to FL10-FL100 in as many places as possible. We will never get 100% MLAT coverage. It's possible to get MLAT coverage on FL200 in certain areas, but MLAT everywhere or MLAT down to FL100 or FL10 is just impossible.

If we have FR24 MLAT receivers in Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Leipzig and Munich we will get excellent coverage over Nuremburg, maybe even MLAT over Nuremberg on FL300, but we will not get low level traffic or landing traffic in NUE, so there is always good to have a receiver there.

[eddm_muc]

If we have FR24 MLAT receivers in Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Leipzig and Munich we will get excellent coverage over Nuremburg, maybe even MLAT over Nuremberg on FL300, but we will not get low level traffic or landing traffic in NUE, so there is always good to have a receiver there.

Yes, agree, but the more FR24 boxes are installed the less the "others" will have any chance to be used as a feeder, because they will loose against FR24 boxes.

Anyway, makes no sense to continue the discussion.
you confirmed what I suspected, that FR24 boxes are the winners .
whatever this means

[Kanok]

That's until some one come up with faster box (new SBS, Radarcape) we will see more of F-xxxx.


Sent from my iPad 2 Limited Ed. using Tapatalk HD

[TCASAlert]

Yes, agree, but the more FR24 boxes are installed the less the "others" will have any chance to be used as a feeder, because they will loose against FR24 boxes.

But does it really matter if there are receivers in areas that never get the chance to show traffic? Where I am (T-EGNX8) I very rarely show on the map as there are lots of other receivers nearby. But occasionally an aircraft comes over at low level where I'm the only receiver in range, or at the very least it gives a more accurate view of the flight path when played back, instead of jumping in certain areas. And in the very least I know that I offer resilience should any of the other feeds go down, mine will still be there (and resilience never hurts).

But more than anything it's the fact that I contribute in any way I can that gives me a sense of satisfaction when FR24 offer such a good service, I don't really care if I don't show on the map that often. My server is running anyway to give me non-plotting traffic, so where is the harm in helping out? And of course the Premium membership helps a lot too!

[speedbird1960]

But does it really matter if there are receivers in areas that never get the chance to show traffic? Where I am (T-EGNX8) I very rarely show on the map as there are lots of other receivers nearby. But occasionally an aircraft comes over at low level where I'm the only receiver in range, or at the very least it gives a more accurate view of the flight path when played back, instead of jumping in certain areas. And in the very least I know that I offer resilience should any of the other feeds go down, mine will still be there (and resilience never hurts).

But more than anything it's the fact that I contribute in any way I can that gives me a sense of satisfaction when FR24 offer such a good service, I don't really care if I don't show on the map that often. My server is running anyway to give me non-plotting traffic, so where is the harm in helping out? And of course the Premium membership helps a lot too!

Its always good to have extra cover in areas, especially when we have Feeders that go offline like this one:

http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/5964-F-WSSS1-Off-for-1-week

[peterhr]

I get to see maybe 3 or 4 planes a day for which data I submit is used and I am within range to pick up and pass maybe 40% of the UK transatlantic traffic.

That my data is not used makes me very reluctant to spend any more of my money upgrading my radar with a taller masts, etc. I'm sure many others feel the same way and is one of the reasons I keep whittering on about can we have a coverage map so people who are thinking of setting up a radar can see that the data will be of real use and won't just give them a nice warm feeling that they have dipped their hands into their pockets done some nice setup work but there is no community gain.

[Kanok]

I think at some point FR24 will turn off radar info at all and has option to show only his own radar with premium login.


Sent from my iPad 2 Limited Ed. using Tapatalk HD

[paradiselost]

Privileged vs 20 bucks in a Dongle

Hey guys I was not of the Privileged group. I had 20 dollars and decided to give it a try. I am not whining cause the "Overlooking" locations were selected. The new boxes are a complete solution, box, matched antenna and coax with GPS timing builtin.

What would it take for FR24 to be a success?

User experience and reliability are the things that get buyers of Premium continue to use and talk about this neat app.

It is hoped the locations and screening applicants leads to increased reliability and in turn a reliable "User" experience.

FR24 is a gamble and their selection of expensive boxes that aren't exactly flying off retailers shelves with bleeding edge technology is yet to bear fruit.

I've learned a lot with my 20 buck dongles. What I have learned is controlling noise and interference and upgrading and elevating your antenna goes a long way to increase your frame rate and your maximum range.

Line of Sight and Curvature of the Earth work against everyone. The Privileged boxes overlooking have the advantage all things equal because of their integrated system design optimized for maximum frame rate from antenna to box. Even with the dongles you can triple your frame rate with proper placement and an improved antenna system. If you want more of your traffic shown on FR24, get that antenna out of your bedroom window and outside with an unhindered view so you can track planes without excessive dropouts.

I would hope that instead of complaining, you all get to work trying to make your system the best it can be within the limitations of you resources. I get frustrated also about things at FR24 I have no control over but are always trying to make my dongle setup the best it can be.

John
T-RPVD1

http://fr24.com/9.65,122.86/7

[Anmer]

I've been following this debate for some time and would like to add my two cents in the expectation of better understanding the radar alias fetish.

I bought my Kinetic SBS-1 in September 2005. It cost me GBP £400 from someone else who couldn't get it to work. When I plugged it in I saw just two aircraft. I then joined the Kinetic forum and soon realised I needed to get an outside antenna and spent as much again on the antenna, pre-amp and BiasT. As soon as I installed it I've never looked back and the same setup is still working great 8 years on.

Since then I've upgraded to an SBS-1e, SBS1eR and SBS-3 and every other Mode-S receiver on the market including DVB-T USB sticks. In fact, when connected to the external antenna, the DVB-T displays nearly as many aircraft contacts as my SBS-3. But on the desk next to the PC is shows just a couple. As others have mentioned, antenna location and height are key.

Back in 2005 there was no FR24, Planefinder nor, dare I mention it, RadarBox24. But I was able to share data with others using a hacked version of the MMS sharing that Kinetic killed off at birth and later using SBS1 Client which FR24 now hosts. The shared data appears on my Basestation map as well as on FR24.

Now back on topic.

I don't understand the need to see one's own radar alias on the FR24 map. I just don't get it. I can see my own data on Basestation which includes a database of "seen" traffic. But I could easily use PlanePlotter, adsbScope or Virtual Radar Server (VRS) instead.

I share my local data with FR24 and on a good day I may see a couple of aircraft from my feed, despite having fantastic range and lots of local traffic. But I'm in the UK where there are many overlapping feeds and I understand how FR24 processes data

So why do I share?

Because I choose to and want to encourage others to get into the "radarspotting" hobby. It costs me nothing and I get a free Premium subscription in exchange. I rarely have FR24 running but often use it to check on aircraft outside my local range and spot deliveries.

Maybe others use FR24 as their equivalent of Basestation but what gives with the need to see one's radar alias against an aircraft plot? FR24 complements my Basestation by displaying much more traffic, including local aircraft at lower altitudes that my antenna can't pick up.

As I said earlier, I really don't understand the need to see one's radar alias. Surely the real point is to see aircraft, no matter who provides the feed?

But if it's important to see all of one's own traffic, why not use PlanePlotter, adsbScope or Virtual Radar Server? A PlanePlotter perpetual licence costs 25 Euros plus VAT (where applicable) whereas adsbScope and VRS are free. And you can still feed data to FR24 and get a free Premium subscription in return. But when I first started feeding FR24 there was no Premium so I see that as a bonus.

I don't regret spending GBP £400 on the SBS-1 and as much again on the external antenna and associated equipment. In the last 8 years it's the equivalent of one beer a week.

The good news is today's radarspotting entrants can get a DVB-T for less than GBP £20 and not have to invest in an external antenna. Instead just use FR24 and forego the radar alias. If seeing your local traffic is important, use PlanePlotter, adsbScope or VRS. But you may be disappointed if you compare your traffic to FR24 and don't want to invest in an external antenna.

We can't have our cake and eat it.

Discuss.........

[fungus]

I get to see maybe 3 or 4 planes a day for which data I submit is used and I am within range to pick up and pass maybe 40% of the UK transatlantic traffic.

That my data is not used makes me very reluctant to spend any more of my money upgrading my radar with a taller masts, etc. I'm sure many others feel the same way and is one of the reasons I keep whittering on about can we have a coverage map so people who are thinking of setting up a radar can see that the data will be of real use and won't just give them a nice warm feeling that they have dipped their hands into their pockets done some nice setup work but there is no community gain.

Peter,
I want to preface my comments with the fact that they are not those of FR24 or any of the Admin team as I have nothing to do with them. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head as far as when and if or for how long one uploads to FR24. Similar to Mike I began with my basestation back in 2008 and eventually began uploading to Radarvirtuel then FR24 and for some time both at the same time after decades of following ATC on a scanner and then learning more with Flight Sim and from pilots themselves, purchasing all the local 'Aussie' charts from the pilots shop and all. When I first started uploading to FR24 there were only 2 feeders in Sydney, now there are approx. 20. Sometimes there is reward in persuing the ultruistic approach to life and giving despite the numbers (in this case) perhaps not stacking up too well in your own personal favour. As Mike has pointed out there are ways to check your own radar (I use Virtual Radar Server) and to see your aircraft on a map like setting rather than on a 'radar' screen. I have toyed with the idea that they (FR24) may be able to develop the software to 'even the spread' of the uploading radars in particular areas but that's out of my hands and beyond my paygrade for me to seriously consider. I spend a great deal of my day with very few aircraft (sometimes none) appearing on the map. Yes it is nice to see the radar being currently used to provide the aircraft display and to see your own aircraft on the map but it really isnt the imperitive. The fact is that together we all contribute to the overall picture, whether in a small way or otherwise. We used to have a radar here that trounced those around us and we've now found it a great pity that it is no longer with us. We're never going to reach a point where all our 'wishes' become a reality on FR24.

I've just spent $900 aussie to upgrade my setup with a proper roof mounted antenna and better quality cable and am seriously considering spending a further $1,500 aussie for a higher mast (if it can pass the 'missus' test). Whether it will make much difference as far as outcome on the map is debatable (it may well make a huge difference) but I should expect to get a more satisfactory result on my own radar. Down the track if I'm the 'last man standing' in the Sydney area this may be a very different case.

I agree that you need to seriously consider your own personal expenditure for this hobby but that is a personal issue that is going to be different in most cases and one which each individual needs to think about. There is a very real community gain regardless of the numbers. It isnt necessarily a numbers game. I've had serious health issues that have prevented me from doing my job for a very long period but I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to participate even if only in a small way to this hobby for all to enjoy. As for a 'radars range map' I'm not personally convinced it would make a great deal of difference for new additions. It's getting very late here, enough brain strain for tonight.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gregg