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  • #76
    Originally posted by eddm_muc View Post
    I really do not understand this policy...
    And I for one don't understand your point?

    What do you want? What will make you really happy? That your feed is given priority over others so that you can bask in the glory of seeing your alias (that 99.9% of website visitors don't know belongs to you) on the map? Maybe we should have a Settings option to replace the alias with one of our own choosing? Will that satisfy you? I suspect not.

    But seriously, we all have a easy choice - to feed or not.

    If we don't feed we lose our free Premium subscription. If we feed, we may see our data, even fleetingly, on the map. I hardly ever see mine, but then again I'm not looking and don't care.

    As I've said many times before, I just don't get this hang up with seeing one's alias against an aircraft plot. If you really care about seeing your own traffic, all of it, either use the receiver software (Basestation, RadarBox etc), buy a one-off Planeplotter licence or use Virtual Radar Server or adsbScope. Alternatively use RadarView, a free Premium service for those who do feed.

    The fact of the matter is the number of feeders is growing every week and as it does, the chance of seeing one's own alias reduces. But why does that matter? Surely what matters is that we see more and more aircraft plotting on the FR24 website, including Mlat.

    I choose to share my data with FR24 and don't feed any other service. That's my choice and I'm more than happy. I've not signed any agreement and can stop feeding whenever I choose. The fact that I get a free Premium subscription is a bonus. It wasn't even around when I started feeding.

    Instead of beating up Mike and FR24, either come up with an alternative, workable suggestion of accept the current methodology that ensures we see lots of quality plots.

    The reality is that for everyone who moans here, there are 50 new feeders who either don't care or don't read these posts. I suggest the former.

    And let's not forget the significant investment that FR24 has made in development, servers and distributing hundreds of free receivers.

    Last but not least, I think this topic has been done to death and it's time to move on. There's always RadarBox24 for those who feel disgruntled.
    Mike


    www.radarspotting.com

    Radarspotting since 2005

    Comment


    • #77
      @Anmer

      I think there is a slight misunderstanding here.
      I could not care less if my feed is seen or not and I could not care less if I get a premium or not!

      I just play the role of the advocatus diaboli!

      If I would be the "owner" of FR24 I would surely ask those who have a good coverage and have been those feeders who made FR24 big if they would like an upgrade of their box to one of the most modern on the market.

      What I would never do is, to place an FR24 box right in front of the nose of those, who made this company big and contributed to the success and thus making their feed obsolte.

      thats all I am saying and if nobody can understand my point of few, so be it, then I am just by my own writing bullshit into this board for no reason at all..and everybody can move on being happy

      Originally posted by Anmer View Post
      But seriously, we all have a easy choice - to feed or not.
      indeed and if all hobby feeders would do that right now, then this site would get pretty dark, as happend to others before
      thats what I try to point out to the "management team"
      Last edited by eddm_muc; 2013-08-17, 15:12.

      Comment


      • #78
        Perhaps there is room for compromise here.

        To some people the challenge is to construct and run a good radar, and it's nice if the data is used.

        Others are more interested in the aircraft and where they are going.

        - there doesn't have to be a war over it.

        Perhaps if the standard map view for premium users could show the planes they are receiving and presenting from their own radar - much like radarview but on the standard web page it would make the former happy.

        Of course this would have value added by FR24 that the full track detailed and plane info displayed if the plane is clicked.

        ... just a thought, I know the people in Sweden are busy, but ideas may come from here.

        ------------

        By the way, for those who want to see their own radar data on an FR24 screen -
        log into premier ... once logged in
        click 'Premier' on the left hand side
        click 'radarview'
        top left of the screen, click 'settings'
        tick the box 'show local data'
        This will then get data from your windows FR24 data uploader app
        If you are running a PI - the windows app will still work - it collects it's data from dump1090 and will upload a second copy for the FR24 servers to discard.
        Last edited by peterhr; 2013-08-17, 15:04.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by eddm_muc View Post
          All these unreliable hobbyist who even invested lots of money and time to make the service better don't seem to count anymore...
          Currently in this thread we have 2 discussions.
          One is feeders "who even invested lots of money and time" and now expect FR24 to use their data instead of own FR24, just because they have spend a lot of money.
          Second discussion is about the FR24box which currently is sent to users for free, where some users expect us to start selling it, so they can buy it.
          Does that mean that future buyers of the FR24box expect their data to be handled before free FR24boxes? Is this what we should expect on the forum if we start selling the FR24box?
          Should we prioritize data after how much money the user invested in the equipment, or what are you suggesting?
          Sorry, but I don't really get the money vs prioritization discussion.

          Our goal is the deliver the best flight tracking service possible. Best for me that means; best data quality, fastest data and best coverage and that is what will remain our focus.



          This is an example of an error, and similar errors are more or less common all around the world. We have tried to reduce and eliminate them for years. But some software/hardware combinations just keep sending this. So I'm really sorry if you get offended by the fact that we prefer to use/show correct FR24box data instead of "your" data, but as I said one of our goals is "best data quality". If some receivers can't deliver "best data quality", they can still supply "best coverage", and that is why we love all our feeders, and give all the premium account.

          We think it's wonderful that there are feeders who invest lots of money in own equipment and chose to feed data to FR24. We really appreciate it and the premium service was made primary for these feeders. After the premium service was introduced the number of feeders have increased a lot so we think it's appreciated.

          You are free to feed if you want, we will not force you if you don't like it.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by eddm_muc View Post
            indeed and if all hobby feeders would do that right now, then this site would get pretty dark, as happend to others before
            thats what I try to point out to the "management team"
            But it won't happen. I've been in this for 8 years and have seen it all before.

            One supplier has *issed off many of its customers, me included, but it's still running a network and charging for the data. Its forum is just a database update site now but for every annoyed customer there are dozens who are ignorant of what's been going on and are happily sharing data.

            My estimate is only 2% of customers/users visit forums and most that do ask a question, get an answer and go away.

            We may be vocal but we're in the minority.
            Mike


            www.radarspotting.com

            Radarspotting since 2005

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Mike View Post
              Does that mean that future buyers of the FR24box expect their data to be handled before free FR24boxes? Is this what we should expect on the forum if we start selling the FR24box?
              I don't really understand the money <-> data priority discussion. Should we prioritize data after how much data the user invested in the equipment, or what are you suggesting?
              I think some people might like to buy a (low priced) FR24 box so they can present data to cover a niche they have, and where FR24 would not be interested in supplying a free box,
              * maybe they are by an airport that handles three commercial flights a day
              * have a sealed window they have to put an antenna inside
              * maybe too many trees about

              ... and importantly they don't have the technical skills to set up a 'hobby' receiver - but they still want to give to FR24 in exchange for what FR24 gives them.

              Priority - no, but they would like to see their data on a map (even if it's not the full map) - and radarview gives a view to this once they've found how to use it.

              Comment


              • #82
                @ Mike

                Sorry Mike, but I think we are not talking about the same subject.

                If I would have been feeding to FR24 for a long time or if my feed was important to FR24 then FR24 should offer those people a new box to make the coverage more stable.

                But throwing out boxes that superseede good and valueable feeders without having given them the chance to upgrade is unfair.
                you have done that now twice in the area arround EDDM and the latest one F-EDDM1 is more or less covering the exact spot including ground traffic as T-EDDM1, which has now become obsolete.


                if people are able to buy the boxes one day, then its another story and I would not complain if someone gets it and is faster than others.

                I just miss the diplomacy here

                but enough of it.
                I have tried to make my point and I will be silent as of now and continue to see the developements of new software and boxes

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Anmer View Post
                  But it won't happen. I've been in this for 8 years and have seen it all before.

                  One supplier has *issed off many of its customers, me included, but it's still running a network and charging for the data. Its forum is just a database update site now but for every annoyed customer there are dozens who are ignorant of what's been going on and are happily sharing data.
                  maybe because they don't know better

                  Originally posted by Anmer View Post
                  My estimate is only 2% of customers/users visit forums and most that do ask a question, get an answer and go away.

                  We may be vocal but we're in the minority.
                  Here in the UK we have a supermarket that advertises 1300 reduced prices every week, I did ask a manager why we have to pay to shop there since by now everything should be free ... obviously the reason the goods are not free is that they probably put more that 1300 prices up each week - this would be a good counter advert for competitors.

                  The reason that the rival network is still going is because they have prominent targeted advertising to sell their flight tracker boxes - the new sales probably more than make up for the people who leave - and will also aid the advertisements that mention the three quadrillion new boxes installed each month - the 2.75 Quadrillion who have switched off, and are using the expensive receiver as a doorstop, are quietly forgotten.

                  Oh sorry Mike, this gets us back into coverage maps
                  - perhaps before someone buys a receiver there should be something that lets them check if they will be able to usefully contribute
                  - a coverage map showing the flight paths of all planes seen the previous day ... lower level flights drawn in after higher level flights so they take prominence ... and something that tells them how to read the map (apply local knowledge - if there are no low flights, we won't have tracked them even if the person next door has a receiver) ...
                  - If FR24 doesn't have time to do this, maybe a sample dataset [Portugal would be good, lots of overflights, some busy airports, some areas in the north where there may be few low flights] can be made available and a hobbyist can come up with a solution to draw the map (maybe a competition)
                  - as long as such a map isn't useful to the competitors.
                  Last edited by peterhr; 2013-08-17, 16:07.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by peterhr View Post
                    maybe because they don't know better
                    That's my very point.

                    Originally posted by peterhr View Post
                    The reason that the rival network is still going is because they have prominent targeted advertising to sell their flight tracker boxes - the new sales probably more than make up for the people who leave.
                    My reliable information sources (and data analysis) says RadarBox sales dried up many months ago.
                    Mike


                    www.radarspotting.com

                    Radarspotting since 2005

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by eddm_muc View Post
                      @ Mike

                      Sorry Mike, but I think we are not talking about the same subject.

                      If I would have been feeding to FR24 for a long time or if my feed was important to FR24 then FR24 should offer those people a new box to make the coverage more stable.

                      But throwing out boxes that superseede good and valueable feeders without having given them the chance to upgrade is unfair.
                      you have done that now twice in the area arround EDDM and the latest one F-EDDM1 is more or less covering the exact spot including ground traffic as T-EDDM1, which has now become obsolete.


                      if people are able to buy the boxes one day, then its another story and I would not complain if someone gets it and is faster than others.

                      I just miss the diplomacy here

                      but enough of it.
                      I have tried to make my point and I will be silent as of now and continue to see the developements of new software and boxes
                      Ok, so we have posted 50 posts on 5 pages, and we are back where we were one week ago.
                      http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...ll=1#post36540

                      I have contacted several feeders and in most cases I didn't receive a response or received a negative response. I think that out of about 20-25 emails I received positive response on 3 or 4. During 6 years FR24 have distributed equipment to about 300 feeders. We have learned several things and one is not to ask people to do us a favor and host the equipment. If someone is satisfied with his current setup, we will not ask him to make any changes for several reasons. The technical competence is different and there may be users who are used to have some favorite software, like Basestation or Airnav software and by changing receiver they may loose the possibility to run the current software. With an enthusiastic host who has taken the decision to contact FR24 by himself, the up time is much better and both parts have more benefit from the receiver.

                      Another aspect is that if we upgrade current feeders is we don't expand coverage. By getting new feeders, the coverage is expanding.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Mike View Post
                        Ok, so we have posted 50 posts on 5 pages, and we are back where we were one week ago.
                        I must admit, I like vicious circles a lot

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by eddm_muc View Post
                          the latest one F-EDDM1 is more or less covering the exact spot including ground traffic as T-EDDM1, which has now become obsolete.
                          From Facebook
                          Kok Chwee Sim
                          What does Flightradar24's coverage of Singapore experience so much disruption from time to time? This has happened many times before, the latest being earlier this week when coverage was lost for at least three or four days. It was restored today.
                          Like 4 hours ago
                          So no matter what we do it's wrong.
                          No receiver - we get complains about no coverage
                          One receiver - we get complains about disruptions
                          Two receivers - we get complains about first receiver becoming obsolete
                          Three receivers - we get complains about radar code is seldom shown
                          Four receivers - we get complains about radar code is never shown
                          But everyone wants MLAT, that need 4+ receivers.

                          As nothing new is posted in the thread, I think we will just close the thread here, and to summarize the discussion

                          There is no prioritization based on receiver type or receiver software, only latest data is always used.
                          But as FR24 receiver is the fastest receiver on the market and no external software is needed to process and upload data, I guess the chance is big that FR24 receiver wins against other receivers.
                          Feeders get premium for free and can check their local coverage in "radar view".
                          You can apply for a free receiver here: http://www.flightradar24.com/free-ads-b-equipment but due too upcoming vacation times at the receiver team, please expect up to 5 weeks handling time.

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