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**speedbird1960** · 2013-03-06, 22:35

Originally posted by South x West View Post

I will leave you guys with this thought. Liveatc.net is a very popular website for listening to atc communications online. However, large airports such as EGLL, LFPG, EDDB are missing. Does anyone know why?

Quote from Liveatc.

"Why don't you have any feeds from the UK?

It is illegal to provide air traffic control feeds from within the UK due to an outdated law that originated back in 1942. The antiquated law states that although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant to be broadcast to the general public.

OfCom (the U.K. regulatory authority for communications) has stated on numerous occasions: "It is an offence to listen to any other radio services unless you are authorised by a designated person to do so."

This means that it is illegal to listen to anything other than general reception transmissions unless you are either a licensed user of the frequencies in question or have been specifically authorized to do so by an authorized person. This is clearly a law that needs to be updated in light of the many educational uses for listening to aircraft communications. Furthermore, the original reasons for this law have long since become irrelevant.

Let's hope this law gets modified - there has been at least one online petition aimed at attempting to get some attention but it does not seem to have had much of an effect on Ofcom. If you are a UK citizen, please contact your MP and see if they can help make an exception to this law."

LiveATC FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions | LiveATC.net

http://www.liveatc.net/faq/

air, traffic, air traffic control, liveatc, listen, ATC, plane spotting, live air traffic, aviation, audio, feeds, streaming, communications, controller, pilot, live ATC, airport, control tower, scanner, ARTCC, enroute, terminal, FAA, NATCA, aviation radio, flying, FBO, approach, TRACON, milair, VFR, IFR

LFPG / CDG seems to have been offline since 2011.

LFPG Feed

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/lfpg-feed-t8532/

LFPG Feed

**pete318** · 2013-03-06, 23:28

Originally posted by speedbird1960 View Post

This means that it is illegal to listen to anything other than general reception transmissions unless you are either a licensed user of the frequencies in question or have been specifically authorized to do so by an authorized person. This is clearly a law that needs to be updated in light of the many educational uses for listening to aircraft communications. Furthermore, the original reasons for this law have long since become irrelevant.

Yes, the actual section of law is here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...4/54/section/5 actually reading it. It could be seen to include ADS-B data. Since the intended recipient is clearly the same recipients the voice communications on airband is aimed at.

So, by receiving and disclosing (uploading to a service like this, or any other form of sharing would I think be disclosure) could I suppose fall foul of this.

At any rate, I'm no legal expert. It's just how I read it.

In any case, the original reason given for adding these blocked IDs is sound. At the moment in most countries it's perfectly legal to receive (and upload) this data. But, if it becomes serially used to spot planes authorities don't want to be routinely identified. It puts services like FR24 on the wrong kind of radar (bad pun totally intended). So, being as compliant as possible now does prevent a more blanket bout of legal action later (hopefully).

The number of blocked flights I would expect to rise dramatically if/when Mode-S only data is available via MLAT. There's a lot more planes/helicopters they don't want you to see, that aren't transmitting position information but are sending Mode S (no I'm not going all silent government black helicopter on you... Not quite that bad :P).

At the end of the day, if you want to see the extra traffic, receive it yourself

**SoCalBrian** · 2013-04-13, 07:03

ummm...

Some NASCAR teams aircraft ADS-B blocked? on FR24 or some of those aircraft turned off ADS-B (Still investigating)

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/N400DH

The world’s most popular flight tracker. Track planes in real-time on our flight tracker map and get up-to-date flight status & airport information.

Showed ADS-B on my log around the March 26 flight.

**Jarod** · 2013-04-14, 07:03

http://x264.nl/dump/n767a-2013-04-14-fl24-blocked.jpg

http://x264.nl/dump/n767a-2013-04-14-vrs.jpg

Any reason why this aircraft is blocked?

**Oblivian** · 2013-04-14, 07:18

I suspect the Saudi Royal family has requested it. Or the operator who charters it on behalf.

**Jarod** · 2013-04-14, 07:38

Cool, well as i could understand why anyone would want their signal blocked, i could also understand flightradar24 being replaced in the future when it keeps blocking more and more flights.
I love fl24 but i love freedom of speech much more. But i guess that's a Dutch thing, we can't stand censorship. Just be careful you don't get replaced in the future by these actions. Receiving signals is our RIGHT as human beings.

I know you rather have money (or not having to spent it in court), but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...n_Human_Rights Article 10.
More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...n_Human_Rights it's our RIGHT to receive ALL radio signals in the air. LiveATC being blocked in the UK? This treaty overrules that. It goes above local laws.

Edit:
Funny, while being blocked, this aircraft just broke my ads-b distance record: http://x264.nl/dump/n767a-2013-04-14-vrs-track.jpg

**Oblivian** · 2013-04-14, 07:50

No its not a right, its a privileged. Big difference.

A pilot or ATC controller using the data for their job, have a right to it.
We are just privileged to be able to use it too.

And a moral requirement, to hide any data based on legal requests as a result, and do so. As already said multiple times in this thread.

Infact here in NZ it is quite specific. It clearly states any transmission cannot have the information used, or acted upon (and the biggest feature - rebroadcast!) unless you are the sole recipient to which the transmission was intended.

Even uploading to FR24 is a slightly grey area at this time that we don't want to rock the boat on.

**Jarod** · 2013-04-14, 07:53

Time to move to The Netherlands then.

**Mike** · 2013-04-14, 08:11

Originally posted by Jarod View Post

Cool, well as i could understand why anyone would want their signal blocked, i could also understand flightradar24 being replaced in the future when it keeps blocking more and more flights.
I love fl24 but i love freedom of speech much more. But i guess that's a Dutch thing, we can't stand censorship. Just be careful you don't get replaced in the future by these actions. Receiving signals is our RIGHT as human beings.

I know you rather have money (or not having to spent it in court), but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...n_Human_Rights Article 10.
More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...n_Human_Rights it's our RIGHT to receive ALL radio signals in the air. LiveATC being blocked in the UK? This treaty overrules that. It goes above local laws.

Edit:
Funny, while being blocked, this aircraft just broke my ads-b distance record: http://x264.nl/dump/n767a-2013-04-14-vrs-track.jpg

No one is forbidding you to receive the signal, neither Dutch Government, Qatar Government or FR24. Publishing it to millions of users users is something completely different. We have already published our standpoint in this question and we will not comment this any more.

**SoCalBrian** · 2013-04-14, 18:55

N767A - ADS-B Blocked

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/N767A

The world’s most popular flight tracker. Track planes in real-time on our flight tracker map and get up-to-date flight status & airport information.

The other aircraft on the blocked list.

403 Forbidden

http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Saudi-Aramco

N734A - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/N734A
N735A - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/N735A
N736A - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/N736A

**SoCalBrian** · 2013-05-05, 05:53

N888TY got blocked. Owned by the owner of the Ty toy company (makers of Beanie Babies, etc.)

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/n888ty

The world’s most popular flight tracker. Track planes in real-time on our flight tracker map and get up-to-date flight status & airport information.

Flightradar24.com BLOCKED Aircraft Plane List. or No ADS-B Archived Play-Back being saved.

NCG flights (Netherlands Coast Guard) - Blocked Aircraft List
PH-CGC - ModeS: 484646 - Dornier 228-212 - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/ph-cgc
PH-CGN - ModeS: 484607 - Dornier 228-212 - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/ph-cgn

Qatar Air Force - Blocked Aircraft List
A7-HJJ - ModeS: 06A01C - A-330 with ADS-B but blocked on FR24 - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/a7-hjj
A7-HHH - ModeS: 06A021 - A-340 with ADS-B but blocked on FR24 - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/a7-hhh
A7-HHK - ModeS: 06A001 - A-340 with ADS-B but blocked on FR24 - http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/a7-hhk

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/qatar-airways-amiri-flight-qaf

The world’s most popular flight tracker. Track planes in real-time on our flight tracker map and get up-to-date flight status & airport information.

**KJ4VOV** · 2013-05-18, 13:41

The thing that confuses me about this site's blocking policies is, whose law/"request" is being followed, and when? Take for example the Netherlands Coast Guard, as mentioned earlier. Does their request apply only within certain areas, or would it apply globally? Does law trump request? For example, by Federal law in the United States we are quite specifically entitled to receive and make use of anything broadcast (with the exception of cellular phone calls, which fall under a different set of Federal laws), so if that Dutch Coast Guard aircraft visited the US, would it be displayed? Would it only be displayed to US IP addresses? Would it only be blocked to NL IP addresses? It was mentioned earlier that, under strict interpretation of UK law it's probably illegal to receive ADS-B, and most certainly to share it on a site like this, yet that prohibition seems to be ignored, but if it were enforced how would that work? Would all aircraft in UK airspace be blocked? Even if the receiver was in France?

Censorship is such a difficult sword to wield.

**Mike** · 2013-05-18, 15:50

Originally posted by KJ4VOV View Post

The thing that confuses me about this site's blocking policies is, whose law/"request" is being followed, and when? Take for example the Netherlands Coast Guard, as mentioned earlier. Does their request apply only within certain areas, or would it apply globally? Does law trump request? For example, by Federal law in the United States we are quite specifically entitled to receive and make use of anything broadcast (with the exception of cellular phone calls, which fall under a different set of Federal laws), so if that Dutch Coast Guard aircraft visited the US, would it be displayed? Would it only be displayed to US IP addresses? Would it only be blocked to NL IP addresses? It was mentioned earlier that, under strict interpretation of UK law it's probably illegal to receive ADS-B, and most certainly to share it on a site like this, yet that prohibition seems to be ignored, but if it were enforced how would that work? Would all aircraft in UK airspace be blocked? Even if the receiver was in France?

Censorship is such a difficult sword to wield.

This has already been answered in this post http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...ll=1#post29163

Originally posted by Mike View Post

Will will not publish any information in the FAQ just to keep this as low below "radar" as possible. Every exclusion request is handled manually and we will no comment or publish this process in public.

Originally posted by Mike View Post

FR24 should work with authorities, and not against them.

I think we will close this thread as there is nothing more to discuss. This is not about democracy or censorship, but about keeping our hobby alive without authorities enforcing new laws in order to limit ADS-B usage.

UPDATE. Maybe I was not clear when I posted this before. There is a discussion on FAA meetings about encrypting the ADS-B signal. By angering the authorities, we will only speed up this process.

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