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  • Flightradar24 with MLAT possible?

    Hi!

    Is it possible that F24 will support MLAT (Non ADS-B) in the next time?

    Thanx

    Bernd

  • #2
    Hi Bernd.

    Flightradar24 would not be able to show (Non ADS-B) aircraft as they will not plot on the map.

    Have a read of this for more information: http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/about.php

    Mike / Speedbird
    AMS Daily Fight Information: http://schiphol.dutchplanespotters.nl/

    Comment


    • #3
      I can see no technical reason why FR24 can't display Mlat plots on the map as long as the data is usable. But, at the moment, only PlanePlotter users can generate and share Mlat plotted aircraft and the PP licence doesn't allow data to be distributed outside of the PP community.

      That's not to say alternative Mlat provided plots can't be distributed via FR24. AirNav Systems has been saying for years that it will deliver Mlat but no one is expecting that very soon, if ever. It took AirNav nearly 4 years to deliver ShipTrax.
      Mike


      www.radarspotting.com

      Radarspotting since 2005

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Anmer View Post
        I can see no technical reason why FR24 can't display Mlat plots on the map as long as the data is usable. But, at the moment, only PlanePlotter users can generate and share Mlat plotted aircraft and the PP licence doesn't allow data to be distributed outside of the PP community.

        That's not to say alternative Mlat provided plots can't be distributed via FR24. AirNav Systems has been saying for years that it will deliver Mlat but no one is expecting that very soon, if ever. It took AirNav nearly 4 years to deliver ShipTrax.
        Any news regarding this?

        I think Planefinder.net supports MLAT...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Oslo85 View Post
          I think Planefinder.net supports MLAT...
          Really? Can you confirm that?
          Mike


          www.radarspotting.com

          Radarspotting since 2005

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Anmer View Post
            AirNav Systems has been saying for years that it will deliver Mlat but no one is expecting that very soon, if ever. It took AirNav nearly 4 years to deliver ShipTrax.
            Can you still trust AirNav Systems ? When will RadarBox 3-D V4.04 Beta be available as the operating version ?

            Hopefully, another 4 years.
            F-WSSS1 - Cats refused to Pee & Pooh on RadarBox - Running a FR24 Receiver & DVB-T Dongle 24/7 to piss off The Chief Thief.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think Planefinder.net supports MLAT...

              Planefinder doesn't support Mlat

              As Mike mentioned , PlanePlotter is still the only network to provide Multilateration. It has done for the last five years.

              PP Mlat plots are not networked outside of PP

              The data in PP is for the sole use of those who have paid their licence fee.
              There are also security and control issues which stipulate that the Mlat plots stay within PP.

              Multilateration is an extremely complex facility to set up and maintain.
              Its not just a matter of having a few clusters of three ground stations scattered across an area.
              The UK for example has over 250 ground stations providing a continuous stream of data for Mlats and recently reached
              a level 180,000 mlat fixes in one 24 hour period , worldwide.

              Having worked on the PP Mlat system since its creation I know how much work has to be put in and I am looking forward to seeing the FR24 version.

              Meanwhile , remember that you can feed standard data from PP into FR24 as a secondary feed.
              In fact we try to encourage PP users to do this....and if you are feeding raw data into PP , you'll get to see Mlats too.

              Comment


              • #8
                It's a shame that the PP network doesn't provide historic MLAT output to the wider spotting community, perhaps plots which are three days old.

                I appreciate that it takes a lot of computation to generate MLATs but once they are past immediacy it would be beneficial to the spotter community as a whole to see what was where.

                Surely that would also be a good advertisement for PP as well?

                Originally posted by satcom View Post
                In fact we try to encourage PP users to do this....and if you are feeding raw data into PP , you'll get to see Mlats too.
                This is often a point of confusion for beginners. Paying for the machine-locked license and even uploading raw data to PP only entitles the user to see MLATs initiated by other users, and only fleetingly. Blink and you miss them.

                To initiate MALTs one has to pass a review and approval process and one has to jump through this hoop each time you update your computer ( e.g. install a new disk ) . This is the difference between a Sharing User ( who uploads data but can only see MLATs ) and a Ground Station ( who can request and watch prolonged MLATs )

                Hopefully if / when FR24 deploy MLAT they will log the calculated positions in the database, this would be a fantastic historical resource.
                Last edited by rollright; 2013-04-29, 14:34. Reason: added a bit about FR24

                Comment


                • #9
                  To be honest , what you have written is absolute rubbish...and misleading.
                  Anyone with full Master user status can initiate their own manual mlats on any suitable a/c within the mlat coverage area.....subject to carrying out a simple port forwarding process.
                  They can also see the many thousands of mlats created automatically and by other users.

                  Quite why Mlat plots should be made public after three days is a puzzle. Why should they...why not simply pay the meagre licence fee and enjoy all the benefits PP has to offer.

                  BTW for the month of May , PP will be just 20 Euros plus tax...
                  Purchase now and you can apply for a 21 day free trial of the Mlat system......and you can secondary share to FR24 if you have your own receiver.

                  Personally I wish FR24 the very best of luck with their Mlat system....and look forward to seeing their output.
                  With PlanePlotters 150,000 average mlat plots a day and FR24s mlat , we should have most flights covered one way or another.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by satcom View Post
                    To be honest , what you have written is absolute rubbish...and misleading.
                    Anyone with full Master user status can initiate their own manual mlats on any suitable a/c within the mlat coverage area.....subject to carrying out a simple port forwarding process.
                    They can also see the many thousands of mlats created automatically and by other users.
                    What was misleading?

                    Only people who pass the approval process can initiate MLATs ( or those who pay an annual subscription )

                    The approval process also requires the sharer to be using one of a small range of Mode-S receivers and specific software. Otherwise, no dice.

                    This caught me out: I paid my PP license fee and then discovered I could not initiate MLATs. It's not testable in the trial period because sharing is disabled.

                    I just want other people to be aware of this.

                    Originally posted by satcom View Post
                    Quite why Mlat plots should be made public after three days is a puzzle. Why should they...why not simply pay the meagre licence fee and enjoy all the benefits PP has to offer.
                    Because sharing is good! Why keep data locked-up? Once it's stale it has lost its 'value' in the PP system, so why not let it spread?

                    And the licence fee doesn't magically grant all privileges, as I've said above.
                    Last edited by rollright; 2013-04-29, 15:33.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Replies in blue...


                      Originally posted by rollright View Post
                      What was misleading?

                      Only people who pass the approval process can initiate MLATs ( or those who pay an annual subscription )

                      Incorrect...if you pay the mlat fee , dont have a receiver , you carry out the port forwarding and bingo !
                      If you do have the right type of receiver and contribute raw data , carry out the port forwarding , you get the lot for free ....we just ask that you stay online 24/7 or a minimum of 60% of the time


                      The approval process also requires the sharer to be using one of a small range of Mode-S receivers and specific software. Otherwise, no dice.

                      Incorrect....if you want to be a ground station for Mlat then you can be , subject to approval.The latter is important as you need to be aware that your clcok settings and location must be absolutely accurate
                      The only non approved receivers are AirNav Radar boxes as they just are not up to the challende due to their lack of appropriate time stamp
                      You'll find that the FR24 criteria for Mlat will be just as strict...and rightly so because accuracy of the station sending data must be absolute


                      This caught me out: I paid my PP license fee and then discovered I could not initiate MLATs. It's not testable in the trial period because sharing is disabled.

                      See above , pay the Mlat fee if applicable....carry out the port forwarding and there won't be a problem

                      I just want other people to be aware of this.



                      Because sharing is good! And the license fee doesn't magically grant all privileges.
                      ?????????????? We share...and encourage sharing !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We will now close this thread to keep all MLAT discussions in one place.
                        http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...-Flightradar24
                        Last edited by Albin; 2013-08-24, 18:23.

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