Ghostflights approaching EDDF (Frankfurt)

[airnrail]

A few personal observations regarding data quality.

Cathay Pacific CPA2023 is a B748 freighter that runs every Tuesday from Hong Kong (HKG) to Sydney and Melbourne. Mostly it flies to Sydney (SYD) first, then goes onto Melbourne (MEL) and most times then returns to Hong Kong via Toowoomba (WTB) as CPA2022. Occasionally, it will visit MEL first then SYD and WTB. Some days it does not stop at WTB at all and very occasionally it will include Perth (PER) or Brisbane (BNE) in the return journey. Sometimes, like this week, the return flight does not depart until the day after arrival.

The reason for quoting this long-winded example is that it introduces lots of variables into the aircraft’s schedule that challenge data services to keep providing an accurate picture of just where the flight is. I know it is a freight service but that is irrelevant because some long distance passenger services can end up just as complicated with mechanical failures, unplanned diversions, flight cancellations part way through a schedule etc.

The takeaway from tracking this flight over a couple of years (because I have a particular interest in it and can often spot it flying over my place) is that unless the service runs strictly to its historic schedule ie HKG-SYD-MEL-WTB-HKG, FlightRadar24 just loses the plot while its major competitor gets nearly every change right and has them detailed on its site sometimes hours before the next segment commences. Occasionally FR24 will make the right corrections during a flight but lots of N/A or just wrong airport codes still show up in the routes. The difference in data quality between the services is astounding and to my mind mainly reflects the better use of flight plans and airline data by one service over another.

I’m not posting reams of screen shots to prove my point because like others on here I know what I see and more importantly what I’m looking at. For anyone interested in looking up the flights on either service, I’ve quoted the flight numbers and the airports - and it happens every Tuesday.

BTW the aircraft operating this week’s service is B-LJH and it overnighted in SYD after coming from MEL yesterday and is in the air now going direct to HKG.

[rik130]

Flight Tracker Flightradar24 Track Planes In Real Time (1).jpg

[rik130]

Still waiting for the first bug report.

Here's one for you. Gold sub and all features are locked. Missing flight info, can't expand screen, no ATC boundaries because they're padlocked. All are features of the Gold sub so why are they all locked Mike?

Flight Tracker Flightradar24 Track Planes In Real Time.jpg

Flight Tracker Flightradar24 Track Planes In Real Time.jpg

[Anmer]

Just admit it Mike : as far as you're concerned your site works perfectly and anyone disagreeing with you is wrong. In 8 years I've yet to see a single constructive response from you in answer to performance, functionality and data quality issues being raised by members. Every response is either a complete denial that there's any issue or a load of corporate PR guff delivered with your usual condescending tone.

As with everything, thinks go wrong from time to time.

I've been a member here for a very long time and I've run a support desk for a number of companies.

Mike and I sometimes agree to differ. As expected he sees things from a different perspective.

However, I can't agree with your assessment of FR24 and Mike in particular. I've always found Mike to be responsive to substantiated complaints and ideas. And always polite.

Ask anyone who works on a Support desk or forum and they'll all tell you the key thing is to reproduce a reported issue. And to do that, they need examples, with as much detail as possible.

Trolls? Hmmmm?

[apgphoto]

My favourite subject

Until the site is recoded to place priority on actual data from receivers rather than external data this will keep happening, but that's not going to happen. Loose the external data sources you loose the scheduling etc, etc.

I have to use one of the same data suppliers that FR24 uses, their errors are exactly the same as the errors I see here. Its been reported in the DB error thread numerous times when one aircraft is doing two flights due to the mix of data sources. But any mention of it and the posts are usually deleted, as you well know Mike.

[Mike]

Still waiting for the first bug report.

[rik130]

480 posts, "lost track of how many times" complaints, 0 error reports and you just keep complaining based on incorrect assumptions.
If there is a bug, why just not submit a bug report (with links, screenshots and full information) here on the forum or to support?
Posting complete nonsense without concrete references and incorrect assumptions doesn't make any sense at all.

I genuinely believe you are trolling when you come out with these statements. The issues have been raised by myself and others countless times on these very pages and also direct to the support address. Support address just gives the usual empty "we're looking into it" sound bites and nothing changes and whenever the issues have been raised on here they're either

a) been completely ignored.
b) been told to contact support and then ignored.
c) been deleted by the mods/yourself.

Just admit it Mike : as far as you're concerned your site works perfectly and anyone disagreeing with you is wrong. In 8 years I've yet to see a single constructive response from you in answer to performance, functionality and data quality issues being raised by members. Every response is either a complete denial that there's any issue or a load of corporate PR guff delivered with your usual condescending tone.

[Mike]

What is your point? The fact remains that your third party data sources are garbage. I've lost track of how many times this has been said over the years yet you've done absolutely nothing to fix it and the same complaints about incorrect flights showing up in stupid places on the map come up time and time again. Like I said : garbage in = garbage out.

480 posts, "lost track of how many times" complaints, 0 error reports and you just keep complaining based on incorrect assumptions.
If there is a bug, why just not submit a bug report (with links, screenshots and full information) here on the forum or to support?
Posting complete nonsense without concrete references and incorrect assumptions doesn't make any sense at all.

[rik130]

What is your point? The fact remains that your third party data sources are garbage. I've lost track of how many times this has been said over the years yet you've done absolutely nothing to fix it and the same complaints about incorrect flights showing up in stupid places on the map come up time and time again. Like I said : garbage in = garbage out.

[Mike]

From the very first line :

"Flightradar24 combines data from several data sources"



Garbage in. Garbage out.

And the next sentence

The ADS-B, MLAT and radar data is aggregated together with schedule and flight status data from airlines and airports

[rik130]

Instead of posting the same nonsense in every thread I suggest that you read https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

From the very first line :

"Flightradar24 combines data from several data sources"



Garbage in. Garbage out.

[Mike]

Since nearly 48hours 2 Ghostflights approaching EDDF if you look into FR24 via Browser or App.

This means for indefinite time the flights WZZ16AD and CFG282 appearing to be in the approach to EDDF but they never land and dissapear (see attached screenshot).

Did someone of you made the same experience ?

Regards, R.

Update (10:03 UTC): since 9:00 UTC the problem seems to be fixed, I guess it helped that I had opened an incident at FR24.
Update (16:09 UTC): since 11:00 UTC the ghostflights appear again, first WZZ16AD now CFG282 ... it's really strange, that FR24 shows flights which are not there

Can you send a link to any of these flights?

[Mike]

This is FR24s third party data sources messing everything up. It's been raised numerous times but each time they reply denying it and claim they don't use any third party data sources when all the evidence is right there on the screen.

Instead of posting the same nonsense in every thread I suggest that you read https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

[rik130]

This is FR24s third party data sources messing everything up. It's been raised numerous times but each time they reply denying it and claim they don't use any third party data sources when all the evidence is right there on the screen.

[rddago]

Since nearly 48hours 2 Ghostflights approaching EDDF if you look into FR24 via Browser or App.

This means for indefinite time the flights WZZ16AD and CFG282 appearing to be in the approach to EDDF but they never land and dissapear (see attached screenshot).

Did someone of you made the same experience ?

Regards, R.

Update (10:03 UTC): since 9:00 UTC the problem seems to be fixed, I guess it helped that I had opened an incident at FR24.
Update (16:09 UTC): since 11:00 UTC the ghostflights appear again, first WZZ16AD now CFG282 ... it's really strange, that FR24 shows flights which are not there