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  • A380 Label on Flightradar24

    I notice that with the A380, the label changes during taxi after landing, from flight number to registration number. For example, on Friday 8 September, UAE241 landed at CYYZ with the label UAE241 but, during taxi, the label changed to Registration A6-EUH. This doesn't seem to happen with any other aircraft so I wondered what is different about the A380. Does anyone know? Thank you.

  • #2
    It's not really a label issue, as the labels are just showing the callsign and we show the callsign that the aircraft is transmitting. Why some airlines decide to change the callsign on the ground we don't really know. That is a question that need to be asked directly to the airlines.

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    • #3
      It's an Emirates thing. They do it here too most the time

      Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk
      Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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      • #4
        Thanks for your prompt replies. I'm sorry, I didn't make my point clearly. It's not just Emirates but all airlines, as far as I can see. For instance, I just checked a QANTAS A380 at OMDB and a Lufthansa A380 at Frankfurt and they did the same thing. That's why I thought it must be something specific to the A380.
        Last edited by dmwalker; 2017-09-09, 22:17.

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        • #5
          As far as I can make out, the A380 has an AP/FD TCAS which was developed by Airbus and so this must be a feature of that particular TCAS and I am guessing it happens when STANDBY is selected. The A350 has the same TCAS and it could be retrofitted on other Airbus aircraft.

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          • #6
            After studying this issue for some time and doing some research it seems to me that the A380 has an idiosyncrasy after landing. After exiting the active runway and then transferring to ground the aircraft begins to head off to the terminal with its callsign intact. It then very quickly defaults to the registration after this point. This seems to be when the pilots engage the OANS system of guiding them to the gate. As can be seen by the following this cancels the flightplan and therefore the callsign;

            The Onboard Airport Navigation System (OANS)
            provides the flight crew an improved situational awareness
            of the aircraft location on the airport surface, by displaying
            a moving airport navigation map.
            The OANS generates the airport navigation image using:
            • Airport data stored in the airport database
            • Aircraft data mainly from the FMS and the ADIRS
            • Flight crew data entries.
            The onside EFIS CP controls the display of the airport
            navigation image on the ND.
            The flight crew uses the Keyboard and Cursor Control
            Unit (KCCU) for direct interactivity with the airport
            navigation image.


            This seems to remove the callsign from the FMS where we would normally receive it for our ADS-B tracking purposes once the 'airport' is selected. The flightplan is removed from the Navigation Display (and FMS) to be replaced by a moving map of the airport. Hence no more callsign. Flight completed, not required any longer. I've checked this phenomenon on other flight tracking websites and it's the same so not FR24 related. Nor is it an airline issue as it occurs with all A380's as dmwalker has pointed out.

            OANS.png

            ....or I could be completely wrong!

            Regards,
            Gregg
            Last edited by fungus; 2017-09-14, 01:22.
            YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

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            • #7
              I didn't think of the OANS but I see it is specific to Airbus, too. The manufacturer, Thales, states that it was first used in the A380 then A330, A340 and A320 but I don't see any other Airbus showing this change in callsign. Only the TCAS seems to be unique to the A380 and A350.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dmwalker View Post
                I didn't think of the OANS but I see it is specific to Airbus, too. The manufacturer, Thales, states that it was first used in the A380 then A330, A340 and A320 but I don't see any other Airbus showing this change in callsign. Only the TCAS seems to be unique to the A380 and A350.
                Certainly an interesting topic and something I'd seen here at YSSY but not questioned. Interestingly OANS was integrated into the A380 but seems to be an add-on offered by Thales for those other aircraft you mention (except perhaps the latest model A350's). This may explain the difference. I can't find anything on the control panel or operating procedures for those aircraft but on the A380 it can be used in 'plan' mode which would likely explain this not occurring on departure when an active flight plan is selected. The aircraft in this case also displays the registration at the gate until the flight plan is activated.

                From Airbus;

                The OANS system, developed in conjunction with Thales, presents pilots with an overview map display of the airport apron and taxiways, coupled to a new interactive input device to indicate the aircraft’s location on that map.
                As a result, the On-Board Airport Navigation System helps reduce errors in surface navigation, prevent runway incursions by warning the pilots in advance, and reduce pilot workload in complex airfields.
                With this system, both Airbus’ A320 and A330 product lines benefit from the advanced cockpit technology developed for the A380, which also will be applied on Airbus’ next-generation A350 XWB jetliner.
                OANS was first type-certified on the A380 in 2006 and in 2013 the system was adapted and certified as an option for both the A320 and A330 product lines, leading to its introduction on in-service A320 Family commercial airliners and corporate jets, along with A330 aircraft.


                I would have expected the TCAS to be inactive on the ground.

                Perhaps we need a pilot to explain it.

                Regards,
                Gregg

                P.S. I've just watched a cockpit video of a Lufthansa A380 landing at SFO and the OANS was engaged by the pilots whilst still on the runway. Obviously I can't confirm if this is when the callsign disappeared in this instance but I'll check further to see if this is the case, perhaps from further cockpit videos.
                Last edited by fungus; 2017-09-14, 06:46. Reason: additional info
                YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

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                • #9
                  There is a video of an Air France A380 which shows the same thing. The reason I still think it's the TCAS is, if you watch Toronto CYYZ on Friday, September 8th from 1955 UTC onwards, you will see UAE241 landing and taxiing to Terminal 1 but its call sign doesn't change until it is close to the terminal. The OANS would have already been selected back at the runway.

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                  • #10
                    A very interesting discussion. I've seen it before but like Oblivian I thought it was an Emirates thing too because I've only noticed it on their aircraft but then they have most of the A380s in service so it would be natural. I'll be keeping an eye out now.

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                    • #11
                      UAE241 is the only A380 flight into Canada so I didn't really look at other airlines until this thread developed. I asked A380flightdeck at Tumblr and he said it's to do with the TCAS but I have asked for more details so we'll see.

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                      • #12
                        A380flightdeck says he can't release any more information.

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                        • #13
                          After also watching an Emirates flight land at DXB and noticing the callsign lasting to the gate I've found the following after delving further;

                          "ADS
                          -
                          B OUT
                          -
                          ADS
                          -
                          B in
                          -
                          service aircraft status
                          April 18
                          -
                          22, 2016
                          ADS
                          -
                          B Task Force
                          -
                          Bangkok
                          -
                          Airbus Presentation
                          -
                          EYIC
                          -
                          Ref. X3443PR1606676
                          -
                          Issue 1

                          ADS
                          -
                          B transmission issues:
                          A380

                          -
                          loss of the Flight ID 30s after landing

                          Description:
                          -
                          30 seconds after landing, the Flight ID
                          changes to
                          incoherent
                          data.


                          Investigation status:
                          -
                          The root cause
                          is a
                          wrong interpretation of MOPS.


                          Corrective plan:
                          -
                          To memorize the Flight ID until the gate (similar to A350 AESS definition)

                          will be corrected in a the next A380 AESS standard (certification planned end 2017

                          availability of a Service Bulletin for retrofit: TBD)"

                          It seems it's something Airbus are aware of and will be soon corrected and relates to the A380's ADS-B transponder.

                          Regards,
                          Gregg

                          Apologies for the message fragmentation, I got this info from a Pdf doc. It's actually clearer on the following document, page 15;

                          https://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2...rbus%20V.1.pdf

                          (MOPS= Minimum Operational Performance Standard)
                          Last edited by fungus; 2017-09-18, 08:38.
                          YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

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                          • #14
                            Well done! That seems to be just what we were looking for. Since it has been a year and a half since that report, you may have just seen the first signs of the retrofit. Thanks for your persistence.
                            Last edited by dmwalker; 2017-09-18, 13:12.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dmwalker View Post
                              Well done! That seems to be just what we were looking for. Since it has been a year and a half since that report, you may have just seen the first signs of the retrofit. Thanks for your persistence.
                              Thanks, it took some tracking down. After reading through endless operating procedures I finally thought to check for which type of ADS-B transponder was onboard the A380 and hit the jackpot. Looks like that Service Bulletin for the retrofit was in the 'TBD' stage- to be determined so not sure how long it will be before all are corrected.

                              Regards,
                              Gregg
                              YSSY2/T-YSSY4 [SBS-1 Basestation w/- SSE-1090 SJ Mk2 Antenna (Thanks Delcomp) ] [Uniden UBCD996T w/- 16 element Wideband Discone VHF/UHF Antenna, and tuned 108MHz-137MHz Airband Antenna] [Trialing a home-brew 1090MHz collinear antenna]

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