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  • Participating in MLAT?

    I am right now participating in MLAT with my Pi install. However I know that Windows install doesn't have that capability.
    My question is... what's the benefit for us (feeders) in participating in MLAT? I don't see it improving the stats.

  • #2
    Because it's got nothing to do with stats?

    Better accuracy on screen for non GPS transmitting aircraft being tracked. Plain and simple.
    Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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    • #3
      Contributing to MLAT, is what allows this to happen

      MLAT
      In some regions with coverage from several FR24-receivers we also calculate positions of non-ADS-B equipped aircraft with the help of Multilateration (MLAT), by using a method known as Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA). By measuring the the time it takes to receive the signal from aircraft with an older ModeS-transponder, it's possible to calculate the position of these aircraft. Four FR24-receivers or more, receiving signals from the same aircraft, are needed to make MLAT work. MLAT coverage can only be achieved above about 3,000-10,000 feet as the probability that four or more receivers can receive the transponder signal increases with increased altitude.

      Most parts of Europe and North America are today covered with MLAT above about 3,000-10,000 feet. There is also some MLAT coverage in Mexico, Brazil, South Africa, India, China, Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand. More areas will get MLAT coverage as we continue to add new receivers to our network.
      The only reflection on user stats, is mode-s only uploaded aircraft numbers.
      Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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      • #4
        To clarify, I have asked what's the incentive for us (the feeders).

        Formula does not make a difference between number of planes.

        formula.png

        PS: "Insert Image" doesn't work in a reply, had to edit the post to attach it.
        Last edited by SoNic67; 2018-10-25, 09:40.

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        • #5
          I'm not sure what you are asking. That forumula is for your local distance stats reflected on the stats page. As I've illuded to. Stats do not reflect MLAT. The web page does.

          It can't work out where MLAT aircraft are to include in feeder stats. MLAT on upload, simply adds the time to distance stamps needed for the SERVER to calculate positionless data. For everyones benefit.
          Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SoNic67 View Post
            To clarify, I have asked what's the incentive for us (the feeders).
            We get to track aircraft that don't have ADS-B. Or do you want to be paid?

            By the way, Insert Image does work in a reply. Here's the proof.

            09.jpg
            Mike


            www.radarspotting.com

            Radarspotting since 2005

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            • #7
              Who said anything about paying? You always jump to the worst conclusions.

              My point is that users are not incetivised to participate in MLAT, they can also see the MLAT planes because others participate . Some places have enough feeders and it won't matter, but in some more remote areas with limited data plans, even a small jump in stats might be enough incentive.

              Plus I think that the current system can be easily abused to get a radar to be on top of the stats, but that's a different issue and maybe a test that I will do on a different feed soon.
              Hint: look on the stat page https://www.flightradar24.com/share-statistics
              What's common for all the radars in the top positions? Max distance 349.
              Last edited by SoNic67; 2018-10-25, 11:26.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SoNic67 View Post
                Who said anything about paying? You always jump to the worst conclusions.
                I didn't jump to any conclusion. I asked a question. Now another one.

                What incentive are you expecting?

                Originally posted by SoNic67 View Post
                Some places have enough feeders and it won't matter
                Not necessarily. It's all about coverage from the ground upwards. The addition of a new feed in an otherwise densely covered area may provide additional MLAT tracking, especially at lower altitudes. And that's where most non-ADS-B aircraft can be found.
                Mike


                www.radarspotting.com

                Radarspotting since 2005

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                • #9
                  With more feeders it's possible to get MLAT at lower altitudes. At 36,000 feet over Germany it doesn't make any difference, but at 1,000 feet near Gatwick, Nice or Detroit every extra feed extends the MLAT coverage.

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                  • #10
                    Next stop. Turning off the public ranking page along with the radar tag of contention.

                    Cause apparently that's all that matters and the site is here for. Not tracking and plotting planes on a map or anything like that.

                    Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk
                    Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SoNic67 View Post


                      Hint: look on the stat page https://www.flightradar24.com/share-statistics
                      What's common for all the radars in the top positions? Max distance 349.
                      Thatís because it is the cutoff point for FR24. Anything beyond that is ignored as it is assumed to be spurious so any good station would have this as the maximum range.

                      NB my station has a max range of 349 and is not modified or tampered with in any way!
                      Last edited by F-EGLF1; 2018-10-25, 19:34. Reason: Additional info
                      FR24 F-EGLF1, Blitzortung station 878, OGN Aldersht2, PilotAware PWAldersht, PlanePlotter M7.

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                      • #12
                        Hello hobbists and professionals!

                        Today my polar plot indicated IMPOSSIBLE ranges for my radar (349 nm).
                        Is that a glitch of Flightradar network or a problem of my hardware?
                        Maybe some other user have the same symptoms?

                        Thank you very much,
                        Cauchee
                        T-NOOB-001

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cauchee View Post
                          Maybe some other user have the same symptoms?
                          This post is off topic and may be moved.

                          But:

                          1. My stats appear to be correct, max range (today) of 239nm
                          2. Judging by other posts, the stats, like the radar labels, are unreliable.
                          Mike


                          www.radarspotting.com

                          Radarspotting since 2005

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, today I've got my usual range!
                            Admins should steadily post on the forum when the got technical difficulties...
                            otherwise 5.000 - 6.000 nerds worldwide will leave their family to climb over the roof!!
                            Bye
                            T-NOOB-001

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                            • #15
                              Back to the topic. To me is strange that a company, that has a business model aggregating quality ADS-B data and providing MLAT results (and more) for paying subscription users, does not incentivize users to provide specifically that quality data.
                              Why that company would use as "stats" (the "reward" for most users) a formula that not only does not care if you participate MLAT or not, but also can be "tricked" so easily to provide higher scores. But hey, that's just me and my engineering brain hunting for technical glitches.

                              For now my "evil" experiment works perfectly. I have a second station that shows 292 nm, with a little more tweaking I can make it show 349 nm. And in 30 days will probably climb to the top.

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