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WHY ISN'T GOLD EDITION REPORTING OUTSIDE AIR TEMPERATURE?

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  • WHY ISN'T GOLD EDITION REPORTING OUTSIDE AIR TEMPERATURE?

    WHY ISN'T GOLD EDITION REPORTING OUTSIDE AIR TEMPERATURE?

    I 'm an admin for a Facebook group the focuses intently on aircraft. I have recommended to these 563 members that they purchase a subscription to the Gold Edition because of some select features which would be very beneficial to them.

    The first person who did so reported that the feature that provides temperature data for any given aircraft consistently showed N/A in his region of Ohio and was not reporting any of this particular data whatsoever on any aircraft he queried. This happened days ago and he's not reported any changes since. Can you tell me why this may have been so in order for me to give this information to my 563 members? I have contacted FR directly but received no answer. I've posed this question on FR's Fakebook page and received no answer. I'm hoping this forum can be helpful.

    Thanks in advance for your help. I couldn't find this issue through forum searches.

  • #2
    Can you provide some examples? The aircraft registration and/or ICAO Mode-S code? And where it was seen, on which date and time (in UTC).
    Mike


    www.radarspotting.com

    Radarspotting since 2005

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    • #3
      Reported Conditions

      Originally posted by Anmer View Post
      Can you provide some examples? The aircraft registration and/or ICAO Mode-S code? And where it was seen, on which date and time (in UTC).
      User reports " I'm checking it out. Because so far I have only seen temp maybe once out of 100." and " Yeah, I just clicked on over 30 planes and none showed the temp. I do know that most of what I see are NOT run of the mill water contrails. And besides, water has to have SOMETHING to condense on. It is the SOMETHING that worries me!"

      Flightradar24.com said, "Hi YVWJudson, we're able to see Outside Air Temperature at the Gold level. Please note that the information is sent directly from the aircraft and that not all aircraft broadcast extended Mode S data, of which air temp is a part. Thanks!"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Anmer View Post
        Can you provide some examples? The aircraft registration and/or ICAO Mode-S code? And where it was seen, on which date and time (in UTC).
        Uh oh.

        Given the now apparent nature I'm not sure any logical or technical reason would stand.

        Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk
        Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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        • #5
          From a quick browse, it appears that none of the aircraft over the US are showing wind and temp, across the border in Canada all is good, as is Europe.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stealth View Post
            From a quick browse, it appears that none of the aircraft over the US are showing wind and temp, across the border in Canada all is good, as is Europe.
            There are still pleanty in the US reporting the data

            Turn off MLAT
            Turn off US/Canada Live (Remember a lot of the US still runs under 978Mhz UAT - which can support FIS-b/TIS weather in data and so on but doesn't show on FR24 too..)

            And look around the busy area of west coast.

            I understand a Lot of factors need to line up.
            Transponder type needs to support additional sensor data
            Receiver needs to NOT be ignoring DF20/21 112bit packets
            Ground station needs to interrogate transponder and request outside data..

            There was a study in the netherlands for weather forecasting using the data, and they found the same - need to be near something requesting the data

            http://bibliotheek.knmi.nl/knmipubTR/TR336.pdf
            Last edited by Oblivian; 2018-06-09, 01:56.
            Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
              There are still pleanty in the US reporting the data

              Turn off MLAT
              Turn off US/Canada Live (Remember a lot of the US still runs under 978Mhz UAT - which can support FIS-b/TIS weather in data and so on but doesn't show on FR24 too..)

              And look around the busy area of east coast.

              I understand a Lot of factors need to line up.
              Transponder type needs to support additional sensor data
              Receiver needs to NOT be ignoring DF20/21 112bit packets
              Ground station needs to interrogate transponder and request outside data..

              There was a study in the netherlands for weather forecasting using the data, and they found the same - need to be near something requesting the data

              http://bibliotheek.knmi.nl/knmipubTR/TR336.pdf
              Not for me there isn't, I've just looked at the inbound traffic to KJFK and not one aircraft is showing wind or temperature. So its looking like a FR24 issue. One example attached: vs10.JPG
              Last edited by Stealth; 2018-06-09, 01:52.

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              • #8
                Got my coasts back to front.... all but one (atr) of the 6 I just clicked on showing

                temp.JPG
                Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oblivian View Post
                  Got my coasts back to front.... all but one (atr) of the 6 I just clicked on showing

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]9529[/ATTACH]
                  That example is only showing temp, no wind. Here are two examples, one that's in Boston's airspace and one that's in Moncton's. Note no wind, temp, IAS or TAS in the one in Boston airspace, yet all in Moncton's. Both aircraft will be full ADS-B equipped.
                  cap_1.JPG
                  Cap_2.JPG

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stealth View Post
                    That example is only showing temp, no wind. Here are two examples, one that's in Boston's airspace and one that's in Moncton's. Note no wind, temp, IAS or TAS in the one in Boston airspace, yet all in Moncton's. Both aircraft will be full ADS-B equipped.
                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]9531[/ATTACH]
                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]9530[/ATTACH]
                    That may be. But as I say some of that data needs to be requested from ground and isn't always available at the time of being pulled for display depending on receiver.

                    The same mixed results happen here over NZ. Sometimes both. Sometimes no wind

                    In any case, if you hadnt worked it out already. The people concerned appear to be not looking for any faults that may or may exist in showing the data and raising it

                    (Hint re read the user response for what was noted in the sky vs data to make them go looking...)
                    Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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                    • #11
                      I haven't the faintest idea of what you are on about.

                      The OP said that they weren't seeing temp data over Ohio, so out of curiosity I took a look and found that I also couldn't find any flight over the USA showing temperature. Magically, aircraft on one side of the border don't show it, but cross into Canada (and also Mexico it seems) that data, plus wind, IAS and TAS all appear.

                      If I was inclined, I could supply Anmer with a swag of examples. So unless you can explain the trans-border issue.......

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                      • #12
                        And another example then, tracking, one second both there. The next update (animate off) -, then back

                        Without knowing the source (it could even be the same AMDAR data they use for wind barbs) theres no pinpointing the reasoning/cause.

                        But it sure isn't being hidden to hide contrails.
                        Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stealth View Post
                          I haven't the faintest idea of what you are on about.

                          The OP said that they weren't seeing temp data over Ohio, so out of curiosity I took a look and found that I also couldn't find any flight over the USA showing temperature. Magically, aircraft on one side of the border don't show it, but cross into Canada (and also Mexico it seems) that data, plus wind, IAS and TAS all appear.

                          If I was inclined, I could supply Anmer with a swag of examples. So unless you can explain the trans-border issue.......
                          Meaning this bit..

                          Yeah, I just clicked on over 30 planes and none showed the temp. I do know that most of what I see are NOT run of the mill water contrails. And besides, water has to have SOMETHING to condense on. It is the SOMETHING that worries me!"
                          Last edited by Oblivian; 2018-06-09, 07:22.
                          Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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                          • #14
                            I wasn't interested in their conspiracy theories, just the absence of the data.

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                            • #15
                              My guess is the ground stations in the US are not requesting the "missing" data.

                              Just a guess mind you.

                              FR24 could easily confirm this (or what is happening - shame these posts don't appear to be monotored by it).
                              Mike


                              www.radarspotting.com

                              Radarspotting since 2005

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