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  • Originally posted by F-KRNT2 View Post
    ekrk5 :
    Those sources are all incorrect.
    Our internal data system for production shows many different columns, such as :

    1. Tabulation number (eg. YH890)
    2. Current configuration (eg. 8, 800, 900ER, 800MMA)
    3. Current operator (eg. DAL)
    4. Current owner (eg. DAL)
    5. Firing order configuration (eg. 932, 8FV, 8AS, 8, 990)
    6. Line number (eg. 6800)
    7. Model (eg. 737)
    8. Model sub (eg. 8, 9, 700, 800, 900)
    9. Current registry (eg. N890DN)
    10. Serial (eg. 32001)
    11. Roll out date.
    12. First flight date.
    13. Planned delivery date.

    There are other systems used which contain additional information but all include the firing order configuration.
    You are partially correct about the 747-8's changing, but it was not line number 1534, it was 1542 which had a firing order configuration 83Q but changed to 8F when the order transferred to UPS and frames since are simply 8F.
    Thank you. Nice to get a response.
    I think the reason for all this is that FAA have send out a revision to Boeing Type Certificates.
    (now I take B777 because is easy to overview) FAA Revision 40 to TYPE CERTIFICATE DATA SHEET NO. T00001SE dated August 12, 2016.

    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/8bff0e63469dd8eb862580190055ffa6/$FILE/T00001SE_Rev40.pdf

    On page 16 you find this short paragraph, which show the previous models, and the future model number (from Line no 1415):

    Model Eligible Serial Numbers (sorry for the bad layout - tabulator is not available here).
    777-F16 38091, 41518
    777-F28 32965-32967, 32969
    777-F60 42031-42034
    777-F1B 37309-37314, 41632-41637
    777-F1H 35606-35613, 42230-42234
    777-F6N 37708, 37710, 37711, 37713-37717, 41817, 41846
    777-FBT 41674-41678
    777-FDZ 36098-36100, 39644, 39645, 41427, 42298, 42299, 62083, 62085
    777-FEZ 62631
    777-FFG 60337- 60339
    777-FFT 44678-44685
    777-FFX 39682, 39691-39692, 62744, 62745
    777-FHT 37138, 38969, 39285, 39286
    777-FZB 37986-37989
    777-FZN 36001-36004, 36198-36201
    777-FB5 37638-37642
    777-FS2 37137, 37721-37730, 37732-37735, 38707, 40674, 40675, 41064-41067, 41439,41749
    777F Reserved for new serial numbers after Line Number 1415.

    Now, my post is not to make any disturbances, but to raise the question, and if so, to make the FR24 database correct.

    Comment


    • The models listed in the TCDS are just for reference they are all contained under the version 777F (in your example), the customer codes have no relevance to the TCDS and only the version is subject to the TCDS. The EASA TCDS for the 777 sensibly doesn't even mention the customer codes.

      That TCDS is not about the change in customer codes anyway.

      Someone at FR24 needs to make a decision as to which way they want to go with the marketing model or the internal Boeing model, presumably with the "700+ incorrect " aircraft they have already decided!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ekrk5 View Post
        Thank you. Nice to get a response.
        I think the reason for all this is that FAA have send out a revision to Boeing Type Certificates.
        (now I take B777 because is easy to overview) FAA Revision 40 to TYPE CERTIFICATE DATA SHEET NO. T00001SE dated August 12, 2016.

        rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/8bff0e63469dd8eb862580190055ffa6/$FILE/T00001SE_Rev40.pdf

        On page 16 you find this short paragraph, which show the previous models, and the future model number (from Line no 1415):

        Model Eligible Serial Numbers (sorry for the bad layout - tabulator is not available here).
        777-F16 38091, 41518
        777-F28 32965-32967, 32969
        777-F60 42031-42034
        777-F1B 37309-37314, 41632-41637
        777-F1H 35606-35613, 42230-42234
        777-F6N 37708, 37710, 37711, 37713-37717, 41817, 41846
        777-FBT 41674-41678
        777-FDZ 36098-36100, 39644, 39645, 41427, 42298, 42299, 62083, 62085
        777-FEZ 62631
        777-FFG 60337- 60339
        777-FFT 44678-44685
        777-FFX 39682, 39691-39692, 62744, 62745
        777-FHT 37138, 38969, 39285, 39286
        777-FZB 37986-37989
        777-FZN 36001-36004, 36198-36201
        777-FB5 37638-37642
        777-FS2 37137, 37721-37730, 37732-37735, 38707, 40674, 40675, 41064-41067, 41439,41749
        777F Reserved for new serial numbers after Line Number 1415.

        Now, my post is not to make any disturbances, but to raise the question, and if so, to make the FR24 database correct.
        All of the models excluding the 737 Max and 787 had their type certificate updated. The reason for this was two-fold :

        1. to streamline and simplify the administration and paperwork at the Boeing facilities.
        2. to streamline and simplify the administration and paperwork with the regulatory aviation bodies around the world when it came to certifying new models*.

        * The Netherlands is a good example of this : you may note that the 737-700NG and -800NG type certificates are 737-7K2 and 737-8K2 respectively - there is no 737-706 or 737-806 (KLM) as it would have required a separate certification on the "old" system.

        How you choose to index the airframes depends on personal preference. If you only wish to go as deep as the airframe data placard then yes, you could say that all frames since the type certificate revision should be indexed as 737-700, 777F etc. But the picture is much larger than that and the firing order configuration identifier (or customer code if you prefer) still plays a key part in the manufacturing process of the airframes. So to claim that they no longer exist and are being reported erroneously is incorrect.

        This website lists the airframes with their full data set so I guess that is what they prefer.

        Comment


        • Thank you for the answer. First I want to say that I can follow you in your wish to have full data on FR24. But then the B737 MAX, B787 and B747 doesn't fit into your wish.
          Never the less, now I got my view and my question turned around, so I say thank you.

          Comment


          • Corrections needed for RYANAIR fleet. EI-DWH is listed twice; EI-EKR is listed three times. Thus the 737-800 fleet appears to have three more aircraft than it actually does.
            JET2 Boeing 737-300 fleet. Need to remove G-CELA which went to Kemble some months ago.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ekrk5 View Post
              Thank you for the answer. First I want to say that I can follow you in your wish to have full data on FR24. But then the B737 MAX, B787 and B747 doesn't fit into your wish.
              Never the less, now I got my view and my question turned around, so I say thank you.
              The 737 Max and 787 use a different method to determine the firing order configuration internally. These models have never had a 3 character customer identifier despite some websites showing them as 787-881 for example. They are all simply 737-8, 787-8 both internally and on the manufacturer data placard onboard the plane.

              Comment


              • 89602A
                1207
                P180
                Piaggio P-180 Avanti
                1202
                United Arab Emirates Air Force
                UAF


                Its blocked but the serial tie up is incorrect in the DB

                Comment


                • Please make correction of the following informations:


                  E489BA
                  wrong registration: FAB2004
                  currently: FAB2013

                  E489BA
                  FAB2013
                  E120
                  Embraer C-97
                  120324
                  Brazilian Air Force
                  -------------------------------

                  D0746F
                  wrong registration: FAB2003
                  currently: FAB2004

                  D0746F
                  FAB2004
                  E120
                  Embraer C-97
                  120066
                  Brazilian Air Force
                  -------------------------------

                  Comment


                  • The following aircraft changed of HEX and registration (transfer from Germany to Belgium):

                    3D2237 => 44D86B
                    D-ELFB => OO-VCK
                    C172
                    Cessna 172SP => Cessna 172S Skyhawk SP
                    172S9837
                    Vliegclub Grimbergen

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by F-KRNT2 View Post
                      The 737 Max and 787 use a different method to determine the firing order configuration internally. These models have never had a 3 character customer identifier despite some websites showing them as 787-881 for example. They are all simply 737-8, 787-8 both internally and on the manufacturer data placard onboard the plane.
                      Are you sure these numbers are anything but internal Boeing codes?
                      I have now checked a few national aviation authorities (Australia, USA, Ireland, Canada, The UK and The Netherlands), they all register the new B737-800 as just B737-800. There are no customer identifier anymore.
                      Last edited by ekrk5; 2018-02-07, 19:23.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ekrk5 View Post
                        Are you sure these numbers are anything but internal Boeing codes?
                        I have now checked a few national aviation authorities (Australia, USA, Ireland, Canada, The UK and The Netherlands), they all register the new B737-800 as just B737-800. There are no customer identifier anymore.
                        Please refer to the first 3 lines of post #5316.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by F-KRNT2 View Post
                          Please refer to the first 3 lines of post #5316.
                          Never mind. I have now stated that your 3 character customer are used by no Civil Aviation Authority around the World.
                          I have pointed out that there are no correlation with the data in FR24 and the official aircraft registers.
                          And so be it. I will make no further remarks to this case (I think). Best regards.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ekrk5 View Post
                            Never mind. I have now stated that your 3 character customer are used by no Civil Aviation Authority around the World.
                            I have pointed out that there are no correlation with the data in FR24 and the official aircraft registers.
                            And so be it. I will make no further remarks to this case (I think). Best regards.
                            I am unsure if you are being intentionally argumentative for the sake of it or you have not bothered to read what I have written in my previous posts. My explanation was clear enough I thought.

                            Regarding your comment above which I have highlighted, here are 3 examples plucked at random from various official registers whom you claim don't use them:

                            EI-DHA THE BOEING COMPANY BOEING 737-8AS LAND AEROPLANE 01/02/2005 66990 2005 33571 4CA256 CFM CFM56-7B26 2 RYANAIR DESIGNATED ACTIVITY COMPANY RYANAIR DUBLIN OFFICE, AIRSIDE BUSINESS PARK, SWORDS, CO. DUBLIN

                            N8301J
                            Serial Number 36980 Status Valid
                            Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 03/08/2012
                            Model 737-8H4 Expiration Date 03/31/2021
                            Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
                            Pending Number Change None Dealer No
                            Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 52655336
                            MFR Year 2012 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) AB5ADE
                            Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO

                            MARK:
                            G-STBA
                            CURRENT REG. DATE:
                            09-Jul-2010
                            PREVIOUS ID:
                            NEW USA
                            DE-REG. DATE:
                            STATUS:
                            Registered
                            TO:
                            View Registration History
                            AIRCRAFT DETAILS
                            MANUFACTURER:
                            BOEING COMPANY
                            TYPE:
                            BOEING 777-336ER

                            Once again, I repeat what I said in my earlier post : both data sets are technically correct so how you choose to index the airframes is a personal preference. If the extra characters bother you then simply ignore them. Flightradar24 owners seem content with their current format and I think it is unlikely that they will spend several days changing c.700 frames for reasons that amount to nothing more than irrelevant semantics.

                            Comment


                            • A16681
                              N19H
                              GLF5
                              Gulfstream V
                              622
                              Hubbard Broadcasting INC
                              2000-00-00

                              Comment


                              • A5B4C0
                                N467MS
                                TBM9
                                Socata TBM-900
                                1015
                                Private owner
                                2014-00-00

                                Comment

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