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  • BillW
    replied
    Originally posted by speedbird1960 View Post
    This a poor state of affairs, and Bil should be entitled under UK law to his money back.

    This is some of the law regarding 'The Sale Of Goods Act' ( Sorry its a long post. )

    Sale of Goods Act

    The Sale of Goods Act 1979 is perhaps the most useful and relevant to the problems many consumers face when they make purchases on the High Street, online or by mail order. It is worth knowing about this piece of legislation, in terms of what rights you have and how you can resolve the situation, because not all shops can be relied on to act in an honourable or lawful way.

    The main focus of the Act is the provision of three statutory rights, although the act goes on to describe exactly what consumers are entitled to if any of these statutory rights are breached.

    There is some confusion about how the Sale of Goods Act applies to second-hand goods, items purchased on the internet or by mail order, items purchased via a doorstep sale, or anything bought from an online auction or marketplace. This following sections will cover all these situations, and hopefully give you a better understanding of how the law protects you and what you must watch out for.

    It is not fit for purpose

    Your Statutory Rights

    That’s a legitimate claim as long as you are using the item for the purpose for which it was intended. This is the principle of fitness for purpose. There is no point claiming that paint thinner has had adverse effects if it is not being used as paint thinner! Similarly, if you are commissioning the manufacture of a product and do not specify the purposes for which it will be used you will have no recourse if it fails to live up to your expectations.

    How do you measure quality?

    Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, and takes into account factors such as price paid, fitness for purpose specified, appearance and finish, freedom from minor blemishes, safety and durability. If it becomes apparent that an item is not of the quality you were led to expect, you were not aware of any such defect when you bought it, and you bought from a seller acting ‘in the course of a business’ (i.e. not an informal sale), you are quite within your rights to go back to the retailer, even after some months of use. If a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that this defect was present at the time of purchase and you will not have to prove anything. If you are returning an item after this 6 month time period, this automatic assumption does not apply, and it may be up to you to prove the fault did not occur through misuse. You should also consider aspect of durability and acceptance.

    If it is the case that you were invited to carry out a thorough inspection of the product and fail to spot a defect which that inspection ought to have revealed, you may not have recourse. Safety is an important aspect of quality and we will look at unsafe goods and product liability under different legislation – namely that of the Consumer Protection Act

    Do shops have to give me my money back?

    When you buy something from a shop you are entering into a legally binding contract. Therefore they don’t have to give you a refund simply because you have changed your mind. Only if one of your statutory rights is breached (i.e. that the item is damaged, of poor quality or not fit for purpose) do they have to give you your money back.

    Shops will often tell you they will only give a refund on production of proof of purchase. Don’t be mislead into thinking this must be a till receipt. It can be a bank or credit card statement, although you may run into difficulties if it is for a different amount than that of the item you are trying to return.

    The shop doesn’t want to know – they say it’s the manufacturer’s responsibility

    The Sale of Goods Act makes reference to ‘the seller’, this is the shop, the retailer, or the individual you bought it from, and is who you made the contract with. It is not the manufacturer, and don’t let the shop tell you otherwise! If there is an obvious fault with the item at any time within the first 6 months and it has not been caused by wear and tear or misuse, your first port of call must be the shop you bought it from. They have the responsibility to put the matter right, and should not evade this responsibility by referring you to the manufacturer in the context of a guarantee or warranty. Even after this 6 month period, if the item breaks down prematurely , you should always go back to the shop or retailer in the first instance.

    Your statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act take precedence over and above any warranty or guarantee you may have with either the retailer or manufacturer. It is misleading for a shop to tell you they can do nothing simply because their warranty or guarantee has run out, because you will still have your statutory rights. See our section on guarantees and extended warranties for more info.

    All this information is from this website.

    http://whatconsumer.co.uk/the-sale-of-goods-act/

    Trading Standards would also help with this.

    Mike / Speedbird
    Morning Mike, how are you old chum ? Well that post of yours is extremely interesting and well worth studying carefully.
    One problem is, as I have pointed out in a previous post, this problem with drivers and Windows 7 64bit is NOT made well known and it is not until you buy the Eqpt get it home and try to install it, that you find out about it. I mean I am thick , I admit that when it comes to technical matters, also I do not have a lot of patience I admit that too, but I bought, like a good many other people, Airnav Radarbox Pro in good faith, as an ordinary customer, expecting to go home and with a cup of tea and a packet of my favourite "Biccys" LOL, install it and use it...simple....that is how it SHOULD be, but because of the technical problem between the PC and the Radar box and the fact that as a genuine customer I was not told about it, THAT is wrong, someone somewhere should be taken to task over that part of it, as a customer I have the right to know any information that could cause the Eqpt not to work that is a known problem by the manufacturers and the retailer. But it is a case of "sod the customer", lets get his money first !!

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Originally posted by Anmer View Post
    A new RadarBox comes with 12 months "free" subscription to the 5 minute delayed network. That means, if you are connected to the internet, you can "share" traffic with other RadarBox users. But the traffic displays a position 5 minutes earlier. It shows an "historic" location.

    After the free 12 months is up you can pay extra to continue using the service. This costs Euro 8 a month.

    Alternatively you can pay even more for "live" data (not delayed 5 minutes) and this costs Euro 15 a month. I suspect Akbar was offering you three months "free" subscription for the delayed network.

    One thing to bear in mind. The RadarBox default setting is set for your data to be sent to the AirNav server. If you change this preference, it reverts back everytime you start RadarBox.

    In essence, AirNav is selling your data without your permission as the majority of RadarBox users will be unaware of this default setting and that it resets itself the next time you launch the software. There has been much debate about this (at minimum) unethical practice and AirNav refuses to change the default setting to off and to retain the customer's preference. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to undertsand why as this is lucrative business for AirNav.

    Alternatively you can see live shared data for free on FR24 or for a one-off payment of Euro 25 by using PlanePlotter.

    Bottom line is you weren't being offered much and it doesn't cost AirNav anything in the first place.
    Good morning Anmar old mate, thank you for that. So if me or anyone else buys Airnav radarbox, takes it home, sets it up and just uses it, we STILL have to pay money on top of the purchase price or lose the service is that right ? In which case mate, it is a bigger rip off than first thought !!

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • speedbird1960
    replied
    This a poor state of affairs, and Bill should be entitled under UK law to his money back.

    This is some of the law regarding 'The Sale Of Goods Act' ( Sorry its a long post. )

    Sale of Goods Act

    The Sale of Goods Act 1979 is perhaps the most useful and relevant to the problems many consumers face when they make purchases on the High Street, online or by mail order. It is worth knowing about this piece of legislation, in terms of what rights you have and how you can resolve the situation, because not all shops can be relied on to act in an honourable or lawful way.

    The main focus of the Act is the provision of three statutory rights, although the act goes on to describe exactly what consumers are entitled to if any of these statutory rights are breached.

    There is some confusion about how the Sale of Goods Act applies to second-hand goods, items purchased on the internet or by mail order, items purchased via a doorstep sale, or anything bought from an online auction or marketplace. This following sections will cover all these situations, and hopefully give you a better understanding of how the law protects you and what you must watch out for.

    It is not fit for purpose

    Your Statutory Rights

    That’s a legitimate claim as long as you are using the item for the purpose for which it was intended. This is the principle of fitness for purpose. There is no point claiming that paint thinner has had adverse effects if it is not being used as paint thinner! Similarly, if you are commissioning the manufacture of a product and do not specify the purposes for which it will be used you will have no recourse if it fails to live up to your expectations.

    How do you measure quality?

    Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, and takes into account factors such as price paid, fitness for purpose specified, appearance and finish, freedom from minor blemishes, safety and durability. If it becomes apparent that an item is not of the quality you were led to expect, you were not aware of any such defect when you bought it, and you bought from a seller acting ‘in the course of a business’ (i.e. not an informal sale), you are quite within your rights to go back to the retailer, even after some months of use. If a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that this defect was present at the time of purchase and you will not have to prove anything. If you are returning an item after this 6 month time period, this automatic assumption does not apply, and it may be up to you to prove the fault did not occur through misuse. You should also consider aspect of durability and acceptance.

    If it is the case that you were invited to carry out a thorough inspection of the product and fail to spot a defect which that inspection ought to have revealed, you may not have recourse. Safety is an important aspect of quality and we will look at unsafe goods and product liability under different legislation – namely that of the Consumer Protection Act

    Do shops have to give me my money back?

    When you buy something from a shop you are entering into a legally binding contract. Therefore they don’t have to give you a refund simply because you have changed your mind. Only if one of your statutory rights is breached (i.e. that the item is damaged, of poor quality or not fit for purpose) do they have to give you your money back.

    Shops will often tell you they will only give a refund on production of proof of purchase. Don’t be mislead into thinking this must be a till receipt. It can be a bank or credit card statement, although you may run into difficulties if it is for a different amount than that of the item you are trying to return.

    The shop doesn’t want to know – they say it’s the manufacturer’s responsibility

    The Sale of Goods Act makes reference to ‘the seller’, this is the shop, the retailer, or the individual you bought it from, and is who you made the contract with. It is not the manufacturer, and don’t let the shop tell you otherwise! If there is an obvious fault with the item at any time within the first 6 months and it has not been caused by wear and tear or misuse, your first port of call must be the shop you bought it from. They have the responsibility to put the matter right, and should not evade this responsibility by referring you to the manufacturer in the context of a guarantee or warranty. Even after this 6 month period, if the item breaks down prematurely , you should always go back to the shop or retailer in the first instance.

    Your statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act take precedence over and above any warranty or guarantee you may have with either the retailer or manufacturer. It is misleading for a shop to tell you they can do nothing simply because their warranty or guarantee has run out, because you will still have your statutory rights. See our section on guarantees and extended warranties for more info.

    All this information is from this website.

    http://whatconsumer.co.uk/the-sale-of-goods-act/

    Trading Standards would also help with this.

    Mike / Speedbird
    Last edited by speedbird1960; 2011-12-17, 23:00.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anmer
    replied
    A new RadarBox comes with 12 months "free" subscription to the 5 minute delayed network. That means, if you are connected to the internet, you can "share" traffic with other RadarBox users. But the traffic displays a position 5 minutes earlier. It shows an "historic" location.

    After the free 12 months is up you can pay extra to continue using the service. This costs Euro 8 a month.

    Alternatively you can pay even more for "live" data (not delayed 5 minutes) and this costs Euro 15 a month. I suspect Akbar was offering you three months "free" subscription for the delayed network.

    One thing to bear in mind. The RadarBox default setting is set for your data to be sent to the AirNav server. If you change this preference, it reverts back everytime you start RadarBox.

    In essence, AirNav is selling your data without your permission as the majority of RadarBox users will be unaware of this default setting and that it resets itself the next time you launch the software. There has been much debate about this (at minimum) unethical practice and AirNav refuses to change the default setting to off and to retain the customer's preference. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to undertsand why as this is lucrative business for AirNav.

    Alternatively you can see live shared data for free on FR24 or for a one-off payment of Euro 25 by using PlanePlotter.

    Bottom line is you weren't being offered much and it doesn't cost AirNav anything in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Good morning "you lot" LOL,
    What a morning, torrential rain here at the moment, cant get my dog out for a "pee" LOL.
    Anyway, Airnav, well now, last time I was on mine, I set everything up as I wanted it so that next time I start it everything would be fine......"ugh ugh" WRONG !! I went on it last night and everything was back to how it was previously and I had to set it up again.

    Now, I e mailed that "geezer", Andre and sure enough he replied to say one of his support team would be e mailing me.....about 30minutes later I recieved an e mail from someone called Akber who duly apologised and explained all about the problems with starting Airnav on Windows 7 64bit, then he went on to say that because the retailer failed to explain properly that with that Windows programme, I would need to have more drivers, Airnav would like to offer me a FREE 3 months subscription and if I let him know which one I would like he would see to it.
    I have to admit I dont know what he meant, a subscription to what ? But anyway I replied thanking him but I declined the offer.

    At the "end of the day", we buy these equipments in good faith and we do not expect to have all this "hassle" to be able to use them.
    I know, that had I known about the problems with Windows 7 64 bit and Airnav Radar box, I would have kept my money in my pocket. Like you say I learned the hard way, but I feel that although it has been explained to me about the drivers, I sincerely hope that some other poor unsuspecting buyer will not fall for this problem, I still do not think that the problem is still being made general knowledge.

    I DO blame the retailer partly for not informing me, instead of being too quick to "seal a sale", because I had not got the technical knowledge to ask about it, although I did ask if it was ok with windows 7 and he said yes...which in the long run it is, but not before a load of messing about to start with.
    So my feelings toward anything "modern" within our hobby, has been dented, do you blame me ??

    Bill
    Last edited by BillW; 2011-08-26, 03:50.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoCalBrian
    replied
    Sorry you had to find out the hard way after buying the RadarBox product.

    Most of us will never buy something from AirNav Systems ever again.
    We go through too much bullshit to mess with another AirNav Systems product like ShipTrax or others.

    It takes too much time unclicking the "Share Flight Data" box on the Radarbox software every time it's open!. Even on ShipTrax software "Share Ship Data" box.
    365 days per year unclicking the stupid box because it doesn't remember the user settings!

    I never want to go through it again.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Originally posted by Anmer View Post
    Hi Bill

    My post was to try and put your experience into perspective and, hopefully, encourage others to venture into radarspotting at a level that they can afford and with a better understanding of the options and known issues.

    I'm sure you'll get some real enjoyment from your RadarBox. Don't let the bad experience outweigh the benefits now you have it working, albeit on an XP machine instead of Win7 64 bit.
    Morning mate, yes I understand that AND if you want to use my experienced problems with it please do so, not a problem. I do think the problems with Windows 7 64bit should be highlighted to other prospective buyers though.
    I thank you and indeed everyone for their help and advice, I really do.
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Anmer
    replied
    Hi Bill

    My post was to try and put your experience into perspective and, hopefully, encourage others to venture into radarspotting at a level that they can afford and with a better understanding of the options and known issues.

    I'm sure you'll get some real enjoyment from your RadarBox. Don't let the bad experience outweigh the benefits now you have it working, albeit on an XP machine instead of Win7 64 bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Well chaps, I said my piece this morning, in a previous post, but my goodness what a sad state of affairs this whole mess is.
    The more I read the more divulging the the situation becomes.
    It is clear now that for one, I "cocked up" and should have done more research on the eqpt before I bought it.

    But what a sad state of affairs it really is.
    I enjoy Flightradar 24 live tracking, I am on there every morning early "am" and as regards this forum, well it too is brilliant and thank you to everyone for making me welcome when I joined.

    Regarding the Airnav problem of mine----- I am sick and tired of the whole episode, I have got it set up on a XP laptop and that is where it can stay as far as I am concerned. Over the last week, it has cost me "Loadsa"money, it has cost me time and it has cost me stress and at my time of life I want none of those problems.
    It can stay where it is whilst I get on with the hobby as I always have.

    RIP Airnav !

    Have a good day everyone.

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Anmer
    replied
    For those who don't want to spend money on the radarspotting part of the hobby, there are many free aircaft tracking websites such as Flightradar24. Those with iPhones, iPads and Androids can also join in, spending a few Euros to add value to the free phone apps that are also available.

    For a few more Euros, one can get the COAA PlanePlotter software and "borrow" data from other PlanePlotter sharers. If one wants more control and guaranteed local traffic then that's the time to consider buying a receiver, of which there are now many, some not too expensive.

    All aspects of the radarspotting hobby is covered, from tracking websites to receivers, in my free "What's Radarspotting?" Guide.

    In addition, I've produced another free comparative guide on all the commercially available, pre-built receivers. I've also written one on assembling the Beast.

    As for advertising, one company in particular "embellishes" the truth and is hoodwinking the consumer. I've already reported its main distributor, Waters & Stanton, to Essex Trading Standards which forced it to stop using a misleading "Fact Sheet" and action is now being taken against Waters & Stanton by the Advertising Standards Authority for a recent advert in Airliners World which contravened the Advertising Code.

    My advice to anyone wanting to get involved in radarspotting is to join Radarspotters, the only independent forum specialising in this aspect of the hobby and free to join. Radarspotters was created to provide free help and advice and, where appropriate, expose those who try and exploit the likes of Bill. And, as can be seen by the blog referred to in this thread, some don't approve of what we do and it's not hard to work out why.
    Last edited by Anmer; 2011-08-25, 10:37. Reason: missing letter

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Good morning everyone,
    Well I have read this particular thread once or twice and I have come to the conclusion that these radar systems,whichever make you choose, are a Licence to print money both for the makers and the retailers.
    These systems are more or less obsolete and need updating before they leave the shelves.
    If one wants to get technical within our hobby and you buy one of these systems, it seems as though you better have a really good healthy bank balance to keep up with the updating of these things.

    The hobby of an aircraft enthusiast has changed over the years, it has come on "leaps and bounds" with all sorts of new modern equipment for sale. But what ordinary, working bloke can afford to keep up with all the money that these items cost, let alone the original outlay to start with.
    As you know I have recently paid out which in my mind was a largeamount of money for one of these radar systems and have had nothing but problems with it because of my PC, but in the begining I was not offered proper information about it, either by the makers in their advertisement or by the retailer in the selling of the item and I am not a clever bloke, I am not technically minded and have come very close to wasting 399, simply because money came first and customer service came second by the vendor.
    I am apalled that these people can treat, non technical people like me, within the hobby, the way they do to make money an I think some official body should be made aware of these goings on. I worked all my life and now I get my pension(s) but I have worked to deserve them plus the fact that I am an old aircraft enthusiast having been in the hobby for at least 40 "odd" years, I still depend on the simple old ways of the hobby and the only technical thing I depend on is my scanner, but if I want to TRY and get involved in what I call "the modern hobby", I have to first spend a lot of money (as above) and then take the chance of being ripped off by nothing more than a money making scam !!
    So I have this radar box, it is not perfect by any standard, but I flatly refuse to either spend any more money with it, or get stressed or annoyed about it any longer.
    I made a mistake albeit an expensive one, but it will not happen again because I now refuse to get involved in the "modern hobby" of being an aircraft enthusiast, I am sticking to the old ways that have given me no trouble whatsoever since the sixties when I first started. I never used to be glued to a computer screen to do the hobby, I was out in the fresh air viewing and spotting. We never used to talk about Squawks and all that stuff, that was left to the ATCs and aircrews, all that has come about with modern times and people trying to make the enjoyable simple non offensive hobby of ours more technical and a good excuse for the makers and retailers of these "expensive toys" to make money money money " Well they "aint" making any more out of me !!

    Thank you.

    Bill
    A genuine old fashoined aircraft enthusiast.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoCalBrian
    replied
    Andre Brandao's AirNav Systems CEO Blog been updated on August 16th.
    Some info might be posted by Tarbat.

    Tuesday, 16 August 2011
    Hypocritical, Hacking, Deleting (soo much i can't remember )


    1.) Hex Code
    2.) Hack Attack
    3.) Twitter
    4.) Members on RS
    Plus 41+ comments!
    http://radarspottersforum.blogspot.c...-soo-much.html
    Last edited by SoCalBrian; 2011-08-24, 18:34.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Many thanks for that. Let you know how it goes.

    Bill.

    Leave a comment:


  • tarbat
    replied
    Bill,

    Radarbox definately works with Win7 64-bit, that's what I run.



    So, have you downloaded and installed the 64-bit drivers from http://www.airnavsystems.com/downloa...bitDrivers.zip

    Instructions taken from http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/support.html
    Our new Microsoft Certified Driver package is now available from:
    http://www.airnavsystems.com/downloa...bitDrivers.zip

    Instructions:
    1- Download the file above;
    2- Unzip it to a folder on your computer;
    3- Disconnect your RadarBox USB cable, wait a few seconds and connect it again;
    4- When Windows prompts you to find the proper RadarBox driver browse the folder where you have extracted your drivers to;

    If the above Windows prompt box does not appear:
    1- Go to Windows Control Panel - Device Manager- USB Controllers - RadarBox - Driver - Update Driver
    2- Point at the relevant folder and install the drivers;

    Feel free to contact our support or this forum if you have any question.
    I'd also recommend downloading the latest Radarbox software as well from http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/support.html

    Any other questions, just ask.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillW
    replied
    Anmer you are a Gem, many thanks mate.

    Bill.

    Leave a comment:

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