Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Near miss?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Near miss?

    Hi, new to the forum, joined specifically to report this event. I was on board flight TOM3JG (757) departed Funchal, Madeira 0955 (UTC) 23/07/2012 bound for Manchester. The captain states we will have a smooth flight at 36000' and that's exactly how it went until we crossed the Bay of Biscay.

    At approximately 1208 (UTC) the engines were throttled up from cruise and we climbed (no seat belt warning or announcement). I looked out of the left side window to see a white El Al 777 go under our wing (close enough that I could read the markings). I have flown all over the world mainly on business trips and have never seen anything that close!

    When I got home I used FR24 playback to try and identify the El Al aircraft. I eventually found it was ELY027 (777) Tel Aviv (0752 UTC) to New York. Both aircraft appear to have been flying at 36000' in the Bay of Biscay area but after the their paths cross they are both at 38000'.

    Reviewing FR24 playback shows TOM3JG passing over Viveiro northern Spain and in to the Bay of Biscay at about 1150, set playback to the slowest (x24) and you will see TOM3JG come to a standstill (at 36000') for several 2-minute intervals and then disappear at 1200. If you now check ELY027 you will see it has just passed over Saintes (at 36000') near the Bay of Biscay coast town of Rochefort northern France at 1142, it also stands still for several 2 minute snapshots until it also disappears at 1150.

    The next time both aircraft reappear is at 1220, TOM3JG is now at 38000' and about 50 miles south of Quimper, Brittany northern France and the ELY027 is about 300 miles out in the Atlantic and also at 38000'

    Loads of questions:
    So what happened? Plenty of room for speculation but I would say that it was a close call, we had only been climbing under full throttle for about about 5 seconds when the 777 passed under our 757 with less than 1000' of separation. Were both aircraft told to climb from 36000' to 38000'? Was this a near miss? How could ATC let 2 aircraft get that close before they manoeuvred? I know aircraft freeze or disappear from FR24 but this all looks too convenient and neat and tidy.

    Interested in your thoughts and input.

    Passenger1.

  • #2
    Unless the crew or ATC report this as a Near Miss, we will be speculating until "the cows come home".

    Aircraft will climb during cruise as fuel weight drops. And I doubt FR24 has made the aircraft "freeze or disappear".
    Mike


    www.radarspotting.com

    Radarspotting since 2005

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Anmer View Post
      Unless the crew or ATC report this as a Near Miss, we will be speculating until "the cows come home".

      Aircraft will climb during cruise as fuel weight drops. And I doubt FR24 has made the aircraft "freeze or disappear".
      With playback you can see for yourself what happens in FR24 and I was hoping those with more experience of FR24 could explain the way both aircraft representations behave during the period stated. I have a background in military aviation so have some insight into the dynamics we experienced on that flight but not enough exposure to FR24 to make sense of the gap in in the playback. This wasn't a gentle change in altitude it was a sudden and deliberate manoeuvre with no warning or preparation.

      Comment


      • #4
        As I said, all we can do is speculate. And I don't see too much value in doing that.
        Mike


        www.radarspotting.com

        Radarspotting since 2005

        Comment


        • #5
          There are some hard facts, the aircraft involved are misrepresented by FR24 while others in the area are not (not speculation but verifiable fact). We did climb and the 777 did pass just below our 757 during the climb.

          When you think you have come close to being terminated by an event outside of your control there is value in trying to understand the contributing factors, someone made a mistake somewhere.
          Last edited by passenger1; 2012-07-24, 09:21.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by passenger1 View Post
            When you think you have come close to being terminated by an event outside of your control there is value in trying to understand the contributing factors, someone made a mistake somewhere.
            If you're that convinced it was a near miss, maybe get in touch with the CAA? All I'm suggesting is, without additional corroborative evidence, we can only speculate here.
            Mike


            www.radarspotting.com

            Radarspotting since 2005

            Comment


            • #7
              near miss are airprox reports.

              Comment

              Working...
              X