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We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat

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  • jhmb
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike View Post
    USB sticks probably have a similar issue as SD cards I suspect, repeated writing at some point destroys the stick.
    Avoid usb sticks or sd cards, they're not designed to be rewritten many times. And if they break - and they will - they do so beyond repair. Stick to plain sata ssd or - if space is a constraint - to msata ssd, or whichever is the cheapest to buy in. I'm an ICT manager (not selling), contact me if you think I can help.

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  • Mike
    replied
    Originally posted by F-EGLF1 View Post
    Is there any way to improve the raw data buffering on the FR24 boxes? Would it help to plug a usb memory stick in? If so what capacity and how should it be formatted? (FAT, FAT32, NTFS etc)
    If this is not currently supported then could it be implemented in the next firmware update?
    I am sure many who host the boxes would be happy to do this.
    Ben.
    In the beginning I think we tried to store the data on the SD-card inside the receiver but the card is not made for repeated writing. Some of the first 200 receivers we had to switch SD cards because of SD card issues. Today the data is stored in memory which storage amount of course is limited. We will add some packing of the data that should make it possible to extend the amount of data we save.

    USB sticks probably have a similar issue as SD cards I suspect, repeated writing at some point destroys the stick. But maybe we will do a test.

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  • Mike
    replied
    Originally posted by NorthObserver View Post
    As this type of information could be really, _really_ important on accident investigation, it should be considered that local buffering of full transponder data
    and on-request hold / release for analysis purposes should be implemented by all ADS-B monitoring device / software manufcturers. Hobbyist ADS-B monitoring
    is a bit gray area in many countries. This kind of accident analysis support could help making hobbyist ADS-B monitoring activity more accepted to the authorities.

    Some development ideas:
    -support development of the receiver base (other than already supperted FR24/Radarcape) to provide GPS-timestamped data
    -encourage local buffering of the full feed to the internal memory maximum of the receiver platform
    -mechanism for FR24 to request a hold and dump of all stored data frames of a spesific HEX (this might be a type of request that would require an OK by the
    receiver owner for the data to be delivered, the release request could contain a reasoning for the request)

    Spesifically related to Radarcape..as the hardware base is very similar / identical to the FR24 receiver, this type of full feed buffering and HEX-based release request
    should be quite easy to implement. Maybe something to consider together with FR24 and Radarcape?

    I really would like to see crowdsourced ADS-B monitoring to be universally accepted from legislation point of view. Internet aviation enthusiast community has already proven to provide valuable data. There are also other areas where crowdsourced sensor networks could provide added value: weather monitoring and thunderstorm detection are good examples.
    I don't have the information about how Radarcape is handling the raw data but I will check with Gunther.

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  • Sam26K
    replied
    Thanks for that explanation. Not surprising that a German airline would upgrade to the best transponders even under a "budget" airline's name.
    All commercial airlines should be required to carry the 'B' transponder version as soon as possible.

    I don't blame Lufthansa for this disaster. It's not a simple thing to prevent a suicidal pilot and it's not the first time that has happened. My prayers are with the Airline and especially the families affected.
    Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-04-09, 07:35.

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  • TrentXWB
    replied
    A small explanation.
    Among all transponders flying above our heads we can find 3 different specification families:
    + Do260: The older one, these transponders are the majority of transponders airborne today.
    + Do260A: An enhancement of the previous one where additionnal parameters (such as FCU altitude,....) are broadcasted
    + Do260B: The latest specification (fitted basically on A380, A350 and some other Airbuses by retrofit) with different parameters regarding GPS signal quality.

    GermanWings aircrafts are fitted with Do-260B transponders. Analysis of the raw data broadcasted shows that Selected FCU altitude is located inside a specific BDS (4.0 I think) at a regluar rate.
    Then pilot action on FCU altitude knob can be precisely known and then compared to data stored inside the DFDR.

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  • Sam26K
    replied
    FDR has been found and supports the data extracted by FR24 through the radio signals.
    Congratulations again to FR24 that the data corresponds to the flight data recorder. I.E. FR24 published the first data that showed that a pilot intentionally changed the autopilot down to less than 100 feet.

    This has been recently verified by the data reported by the investigators who found the actual flight data recorder.
    Congratulations again to the FR24 team for being the first to know that is what happened before the FDR was found.
    Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-04-05, 10:08.

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  • SoCalBrian
    replied
    The Flight is 'PINNED' on this page for safe keeping.
    http://www.flightradar24.com/data/pinned/

    Originally posted by HeicoH View Post
    Is it possible to "freeze" 4U9525 at March 24 in the database? IMHO, it does not make sense to display "data" of flights after March 24 which did never occur using this flight number, but a lot of Internet sites, including Wikipedia, link to FR24 because of the published data of 4U9525 on March 24.

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  • Oblivian
    replied
    You have to wonder if this was made based on the data released here, or if infact we will see some backed up info confirming it..

    On Apr 3rd 2015 the French BEA reported that the flight data recorder was received by the BEA on Apr 2nd 2015, it was opened and a first read out of the data showed, that the pilot in the cockpit used the autopilot to descend the aircraft down to 100 feet, on several occasions the speed of the aircraft was adjusted during the descent.

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  • HeicoH
    replied
    Datsbase "freeze" for 4U9525?

    Is it possible to "freeze" 4U9525 at March 24 in the database? IMHO, it does not make sense to display "data" of flights after March 24 which did never occur using this flight number, but a lot of Internet sites, including Wikipedia, link to FR24 because of the published data of 4U9525 on March 24.

    Leave a comment:


  • henningz
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam26K View Post
    [...] The press was talking about rumors of finding the "outer frame" of the FDR and is probably not really very useful information so far even if that is true. But given the severity of the crash, I'm not really confident they will ever find an intact FDR capsule.
    At least this smart thing doesn't look like an intact FDR capsule, but they say it's still working although it's burned and layed nine days in the wet debris...
    this is 2015, not 1960 when they invented FDR

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  • Sam26K
    replied
    Originally posted by F-EGLF1 View Post
    The official line is that no part of the FDR has been found, it is just media that have 'invented' the story about the frame having been found, however even if it is in parts, the memory will be undamaged, it is a sealed capsule that can withstand forces way in excess of anything the aircraft suffered (I cannot recall the figure, but it is in the high thousands of G's).
    !
    I hope you're right about that. I do know that the FDR capsule is designed to withstand thousands of G's and a very hot fire for an extended period but this is a rare crash with mostly very small pieces. The black boxes were not really designed with the idea that a pilot would intentionally fly a plane straight into terrain. AFAIK they never recovered the black boxes from UA93 or most of the other black boxes from 9/11/01.

    In this case they found the CVR but it was still attached to it's chassis and presented a larger target to find. With the FDR if the chassis became detached from the data capsule it would make it much more difficult to spot the data capsule in the debris field.

    The press was talking about rumors of finding the "outer frame" of the FDR and is probably not really very useful information so far even if that is true. But given the severity of the crash, I'm not really confident they will ever find an intact FDR capsule.
    Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-04-02, 09:10.

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  • F-EGLF1
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam26K View Post

    I hope they find the flight data recorder hardware but it doesn't sound good. Does anyone know the specifics on what they are calling the "frame" of the FDR that they have found? There is the outer chassis of the FDR and there is the core capsule with the actual electronics with the recorded data inside it. Not sure what they are saying they have found so far.
    The fact is though, even if the PC boards were liberated from the capsule and broken into pieces, unless the individual chips burned in a very hot fire, if they can find those individual chips they could retrieve the data from them.
    The official line is that no part of the FDR has been found, it is just media that have 'invented' the story about the frame having been found, however even if it is in parts, the memory will be undamaged, it is a sealed capsule that can withstand forces way in excess of anything the aircraft suffered (I cannot recall the figure, but it is in the high thousands of G's).
    So at worst they are looking for something that resembles an orange camping gas cylinder, as they have only just got heavy lifting equipment to the site it suggests that there are still some large pieces of debris and it could well be under one of these, or if it has indeed detached then it could have bounced or rolled some distance away, it will be found soon, of that I have no doubt.
    Ben.

    Nb if you look at the aviation herald forum they have a photo of the CVR, you can clearly see the memory unit on it and how it is attached. it is one of the only undamaged parts!

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  • Sam26K
    replied
    Yes both baro and inertial vrates don't show negative values. It could be an error in declaring the variables that hold those values in bit size and/or signed vs unsigned. Also that huge glitch in the vrate chart above (post #42 page 5) doesn't look right either so the vrate data is probably not reliable.

    The approximate vrate can be calculated from the change in time versus the change in altitude though.

    One thing that is interesting is that the data published on Flightaware.com showed a major negative going spike in the altitude at around the same time that the FlightRadar24 data shows a huge glitch in the vertical climb rate (i.e long before the suicide descent) but the FlightRadar24 data doesn't show any significant glitch in the altitude at that time. So that glitch could be based on actual false data from the transponder. Or it could be a fluke with the receivers and was parsed differently with FR24 vs FA.

    I could be wrong about that glitch in the positive vrate and calculating altitude versus time would verify the vrate data one way or the other. But it just looks unusual for an A320 to suddenly change climb rate like that long after take off and there were no weather issues.

    One other thing that seems surprising to me is that this was a scheduled short flight, why would they even want to fly at 38K? That is an altitude more typical of long haul transoceanic flights and most of those flights stay closer to 35K. This could be their normal practice but sounds like a huge waste of fuel to reach that altitude only to descend so soon.

    I hope they find the flight data recorder hardware but it doesn't sound good. Does anyone know the specifics on what they are calling the "frame" of the FDR that they have found? There is the outer chassis of the FDR and there is the core capsule with the actual electronics with the recorded data inside it. Not sure what they are saying they have found so far.
    The fact is though, even if the PC boards were liberated from the capsule and broken into pieces, unless the individual chips burned in a very hot fire, if they can find those individual chips they could retrieve the data from them.

    One lesson to be learned here though is that the industry needs to take more advantage of real time streaming data as is available through avenues like FR24's technology instead of trying to dig up microchips on a mountain or scanning the southern indian ocean for a lost 777 for years. The bathroom scenario and lone rogue pilot with the reinforced cockpit door actually fits the most believable explanation for what happened to MH370 too. There is a high probability that 4U9525 was the second time a trusted pilot used a fortified cockpit to commit mass murder and suicide.
    Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-03-31, 15:51.

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  • EVW
    replied
    Originally posted by SolarLiner View Post
    The VRATE scale only show positive values. It is possible that it went negative and went out of the chart boundaries.

    EDIT: Nope you're right, I checked the raw data and no VRATE data after the 0930Z mark
    Why could disapear readings subzero VRATE? Do you have any assumption?

    Leave a comment:


  • GMR234
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike View Post
    I don't know what the flight plan of 4U9525 was, but it was following the flight path of the flight on the day before, until the very last moment.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]5847[/ATTACH]

    Images shows 4U9525 flight path 23 and 24 March on top of each other.
    https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...64493928181760
    Thanks Mike for the info ..

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