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We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat

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  • #61
    I don't know what the flight plan of 4U9525 was, but it was following the flight path of the flight on the day before, until the very last moment.

    CA3eTWmUMAAOfwW.jpg

    Images shows 4U9525 flight path 23 and 24 March on top of each other.
    https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...64493928181760

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    • #62
      That minor heading change just before the altitude change looks like the normal route for that flight but it is curious that the course change happened within about a minute before the altitude started decreasing. Maybe the Captain just confirmed the course correction just before leaving the cockpit and the co-pilot immediately changed the altitude setting after the cabin door was locked.

      I agree that crowd sourcing this data and improving the hardware to store more data longer is a great idea and something that should be developed. Even governing bodies should be interested in developing the infrastructure as it's a relatively low cost and currently available way to capture more data.

      One lesson about all this is that 2 pilots are better than 1 in the cockpit and there should be no reason for a pilot to leave the cockpit on flights less than 3-4 hours. All the tech in the world is nice to prevent a similar situation, but common sense is usually the easiest and best solution. Bringing back the navigator as a third pilot would be the best solution although probably the most expensive.
      Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-03-29, 09:01.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by solibra View Post
        The heading change to 25 dgr occurs just above the ADITA navaid. I think its fair to assume that this was part of their FMS flight plan. Also, as Patrick already noted, they were doing the same thing on previous flights.

        I think the allegation that he planned to crash at this specific location is bollocks. First of all, south of France, especially Aix-en-Provence/Nizza is a very popular holiday destination for Germans. So the fact that he was there before means exactly nothing. Secondly, this theory would require not only psychotic but also psychic capabilities on the FO side (as in knowing at what moment of the flight the PIC would feel the urge to empty his bladder).
        I agree with that. And recent evidence shows that he had been planning to do this for a long time. He picked a time when he was alone in the cockpit and probably waited a long time for that to happen while he was suicidal. And the day before his girlfriend apparently broke up with him and he had other medical problems. The fact that he was flying that route as part of his duties is a coincidence and he probably would have done the same thing on some other route.

        The fact that he was able to skirt the psychological evaluations is a real challenge for the airline industry to resolve that problem.
        The human factor is not as easy to "fix" as mechanical problems.
        Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-03-29, 09:22.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Mike View Post
          I don't know what the flight plan of 4U9525 was, but it was following the flight path of the flight on the day before, until the very last moment.

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]5847[/ATTACH]

          Images shows 4U9525 flight path 23 and 24 March on top of each other.
          https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...64493928181760
          Thanks Mike for the info ..

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          • #65
            Originally posted by SolarLiner View Post
            The VRATE scale only show positive values. It is possible that it went negative and went out of the chart boundaries.

            EDIT: Nope you're right, I checked the raw data and no VRATE data after the 0930Z mark
            Why could disapear readings subzero VRATE? Do you have any assumption?

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            • #66
              Yes both baro and inertial vrates don't show negative values. It could be an error in declaring the variables that hold those values in bit size and/or signed vs unsigned. Also that huge glitch in the vrate chart above (post #42 page 5) doesn't look right either so the vrate data is probably not reliable.

              The approximate vrate can be calculated from the change in time versus the change in altitude though.

              One thing that is interesting is that the data published on Flightaware.com showed a major negative going spike in the altitude at around the same time that the FlightRadar24 data shows a huge glitch in the vertical climb rate (i.e long before the suicide descent) but the FlightRadar24 data doesn't show any significant glitch in the altitude at that time. So that glitch could be based on actual false data from the transponder. Or it could be a fluke with the receivers and was parsed differently with FR24 vs FA.

              I could be wrong about that glitch in the positive vrate and calculating altitude versus time would verify the vrate data one way or the other. But it just looks unusual for an A320 to suddenly change climb rate like that long after take off and there were no weather issues.

              One other thing that seems surprising to me is that this was a scheduled short flight, why would they even want to fly at 38K? That is an altitude more typical of long haul transoceanic flights and most of those flights stay closer to 35K. This could be their normal practice but sounds like a huge waste of fuel to reach that altitude only to descend so soon.

              I hope they find the flight data recorder hardware but it doesn't sound good. Does anyone know the specifics on what they are calling the "frame" of the FDR that they have found? There is the outer chassis of the FDR and there is the core capsule with the actual electronics with the recorded data inside it. Not sure what they are saying they have found so far.
              The fact is though, even if the PC boards were liberated from the capsule and broken into pieces, unless the individual chips burned in a very hot fire, if they can find those individual chips they could retrieve the data from them.

              One lesson to be learned here though is that the industry needs to take more advantage of real time streaming data as is available through avenues like FR24's technology instead of trying to dig up microchips on a mountain or scanning the southern indian ocean for a lost 777 for years. The bathroom scenario and lone rogue pilot with the reinforced cockpit door actually fits the most believable explanation for what happened to MH370 too. There is a high probability that 4U9525 was the second time a trusted pilot used a fortified cockpit to commit mass murder and suicide.
              Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-03-31, 15:51.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Sam26K View Post

                I hope they find the flight data recorder hardware but it doesn't sound good. Does anyone know the specifics on what they are calling the "frame" of the FDR that they have found? There is the outer chassis of the FDR and there is the core capsule with the actual electronics with the recorded data inside it. Not sure what they are saying they have found so far.
                The fact is though, even if the PC boards were liberated from the capsule and broken into pieces, unless the individual chips burned in a very hot fire, if they can find those individual chips they could retrieve the data from them.
                The official line is that no part of the FDR has been found, it is just media that have 'invented' the story about the frame having been found, however even if it is in parts, the memory will be undamaged, it is a sealed capsule that can withstand forces way in excess of anything the aircraft suffered (I cannot recall the figure, but it is in the high thousands of G's).
                So at worst they are looking for something that resembles an orange camping gas cylinder, as they have only just got heavy lifting equipment to the site it suggests that there are still some large pieces of debris and it could well be under one of these, or if it has indeed detached then it could have bounced or rolled some distance away, it will be found soon, of that I have no doubt.
                Ben.

                Nb if you look at the aviation herald forum they have a photo of the CVR, you can clearly see the memory unit on it and how it is attached. it is one of the only undamaged parts!
                FR24 F-EGLF1, Blitzortung station 878, OGN Aldersht2, PilotAware PWAldersht, PlanePlotter M7.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by F-EGLF1 View Post
                  The official line is that no part of the FDR has been found, it is just media that have 'invented' the story about the frame having been found, however even if it is in parts, the memory will be undamaged, it is a sealed capsule that can withstand forces way in excess of anything the aircraft suffered (I cannot recall the figure, but it is in the high thousands of G's).
                  !
                  I hope you're right about that. I do know that the FDR capsule is designed to withstand thousands of G's and a very hot fire for an extended period but this is a rare crash with mostly very small pieces. The black boxes were not really designed with the idea that a pilot would intentionally fly a plane straight into terrain. AFAIK they never recovered the black boxes from UA93 or most of the other black boxes from 9/11/01.

                  In this case they found the CVR but it was still attached to it's chassis and presented a larger target to find. With the FDR if the chassis became detached from the data capsule it would make it much more difficult to spot the data capsule in the debris field.

                  The press was talking about rumors of finding the "outer frame" of the FDR and is probably not really very useful information so far even if that is true. But given the severity of the crash, I'm not really confident they will ever find an intact FDR capsule.
                  Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-04-02, 09:10.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Sam26K View Post
                    [...] The press was talking about rumors of finding the "outer frame" of the FDR and is probably not really very useful information so far even if that is true. But given the severity of the crash, I'm not really confident they will ever find an intact FDR capsule.
                    At least this smart thing doesn't look like an intact FDR capsule, but they say it's still working although it's burned and layed nine days in the wet debris...
                    this is 2015, not 1960 when they invented FDR

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                    • #70
                      Datsbase "freeze" for 4U9525?

                      Is it possible to "freeze" 4U9525 at March 24 in the database? IMHO, it does not make sense to display "data" of flights after March 24 which did never occur using this flight number, but a lot of Internet sites, including Wikipedia, link to FR24 because of the published data of 4U9525 on March 24.

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                      • #71
                        You have to wonder if this was made based on the data released here, or if infact we will see some backed up info confirming it..

                        On Apr 3rd 2015 the French BEA reported that the flight data recorder was received by the BEA on Apr 2nd 2015, it was opened and a first read out of the data showed, that the pilot in the cockpit used the autopilot to descend the aircraft down to 100 feet, on several occasions the speed of the aircraft was adjusted during the descent.
                        Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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                        • #72
                          The Flight is 'PINNED' on this page for safe keeping.
                          http://www.flightradar24.com/data/pinned/

                          Originally posted by HeicoH View Post
                          Is it possible to "freeze" 4U9525 at March 24 in the database? IMHO, it does not make sense to display "data" of flights after March 24 which did never occur using this flight number, but a lot of Internet sites, including Wikipedia, link to FR24 because of the published data of 4U9525 on March 24.
                          Brian

                          www.RadarSpotters.eu
                          [ Feeder Station List ][ Map ][ Latest Feeders Rank Stats ][ ImRadarFeeder.com Radar Feeders WorldWide Map ][ VRS Feeder List ] (NEW)

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                          • #73
                            FDR has been found and supports the data extracted by FR24 through the radio signals.
                            Congratulations again to FR24 that the data corresponds to the flight data recorder. I.E. FR24 published the first data that showed that a pilot intentionally changed the autopilot down to less than 100 feet.

                            This has been recently verified by the data reported by the investigators who found the actual flight data recorder.
                            Congratulations again to the FR24 team for being the first to know that is what happened before the FDR was found.
                            Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-04-05, 10:08.

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                            • #74
                              A small explanation.
                              Among all transponders flying above our heads we can find 3 different specification families:
                              + Do260: The older one, these transponders are the majority of transponders airborne today.
                              + Do260A: An enhancement of the previous one where additionnal parameters (such as FCU altitude,....) are broadcasted
                              + Do260B: The latest specification (fitted basically on A380, A350 and some other Airbuses by retrofit) with different parameters regarding GPS signal quality.

                              GermanWings aircrafts are fitted with Do-260B transponders. Analysis of the raw data broadcasted shows that Selected FCU altitude is located inside a specific BDS (4.0 I think) at a regluar rate.
                              Then pilot action on FCU altitude knob can be precisely known and then compared to data stored inside the DFDR.

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                              • #75
                                Thanks for that explanation. Not surprising that a German airline would upgrade to the best transponders even under a "budget" airline's name.
                                All commercial airlines should be required to carry the 'B' transponder version as soon as possible.

                                I don't blame Lufthansa for this disaster. It's not a simple thing to prevent a suicidal pilot and it's not the first time that has happened. My prayers are with the Airline and especially the families affected.
                                Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-04-09, 07:35.

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