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We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat

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  • Sam26K
    replied
    Originally posted by solibra View Post
    The heading change to 25 dgr occurs just above the ADITA navaid. I think its fair to assume that this was part of their FMS flight plan. Also, as Patrick already noted, they were doing the same thing on previous flights.

    I think the allegation that he planned to crash at this specific location is bollocks. First of all, south of France, especially Aix-en-Provence/Nizza is a very popular holiday destination for Germans. So the fact that he was there before means exactly nothing. Secondly, this theory would require not only psychotic but also psychic capabilities on the FO side (as in knowing at what moment of the flight the PIC would feel the urge to empty his bladder).
    I agree with that. And recent evidence shows that he had been planning to do this for a long time. He picked a time when he was alone in the cockpit and probably waited a long time for that to happen while he was suicidal. And the day before his girlfriend apparently broke up with him and he had other medical problems. The fact that he was flying that route as part of his duties is a coincidence and he probably would have done the same thing on some other route.

    The fact that he was able to skirt the psychological evaluations is a real challenge for the airline industry to resolve that problem.
    The human factor is not as easy to "fix" as mechanical problems.
    Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-03-29, 09:22.

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  • Sam26K
    replied
    That minor heading change just before the altitude change looks like the normal route for that flight but it is curious that the course change happened within about a minute before the altitude started decreasing. Maybe the Captain just confirmed the course correction just before leaving the cockpit and the co-pilot immediately changed the altitude setting after the cabin door was locked.

    I agree that crowd sourcing this data and improving the hardware to store more data longer is a great idea and something that should be developed. Even governing bodies should be interested in developing the infrastructure as it's a relatively low cost and currently available way to capture more data.

    One lesson about all this is that 2 pilots are better than 1 in the cockpit and there should be no reason for a pilot to leave the cockpit on flights less than 3-4 hours. All the tech in the world is nice to prevent a similar situation, but common sense is usually the easiest and best solution. Bringing back the navigator as a third pilot would be the best solution although probably the most expensive.
    Last edited by Sam26K; 2015-03-29, 09:01.

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  • Mike
    replied
    I don't know what the flight plan of 4U9525 was, but it was following the flight path of the flight on the day before, until the very last moment.

    CA3eTWmUMAAOfwW.jpg

    Images shows 4U9525 flight path 23 and 24 March on top of each other.
    https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...64493928181760

    Leave a comment:


  • NorthObserver
    replied
    Originally posted by F-EGLF1 View Post
    As far as I am aware the use of active antennae's is not permitted on the FR24 box, you agree to operate it with the equipment supplied and nothing else unless they have given you specific permission.
    Therefore the USB port should always be unused and such issues don't arise, however if you are a non 'F' feeder with your own equipment you can connect whatever you like.
    Data security should also be a non-issue as it can be encrypted and timestamped.
    Ben.
    Yeah, my point was meant to those who operate Radarcape with Active Diapason antenna (10m cable prevents overloading issues..)

    It would be nice if the full data buffering + extra storage -features could be available to Radarcape at some stage.

    Leave a comment:


  • GMR234
    replied
    After investigating the route which they took out of Barcelona, I have deduced that the airways they would have planned from LEBL to EDDL is via UN870 and UT853/T853.

    The turning points along these airways, I assume are LEBL - DIBER SOSUR ROTIS MAXIR LUSOL IRMAR MOLUS PENDU IXILU GIVOR SORAL DIK ARCKY NOR - EDDL

    Of course 4U 9525 never got any further than MAXIR, but it is after the waypoint at ROTIS that interests me.

    The track from ROTIS to MAXIR is 043. If this was infact in the FMGS flight plan, and the aircraft was in managed NAV mode for lateral navigation when it crashed, then it would have stayed on this track during its descent.

    If you look at the track from Flightradar 24, it's final track was actually 026. That is, it turned 17 degrees to the left from its assumed FMGS flight plan track, that's if the airways they intended to take is the one I have above.

    If that's the case, then the FO pulled the heading on the FCU and set it to the left of track. This happened before the descent according to the raw data presented here, and this is consistent with standard emergency procedure (memory item procedure) for an emergency descent for the A320. This has substantial implications if true, because it could then suggest a sudden depressurization event occurred by which, the FO then took action as per the operating procedures for such an event.

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  • F-EGLF1
    replied
    Originally posted by NorthObserver View Post
    Well, the FR24 box is not a tamper-proof device itself. These are (semi) hobbyist equipment. I think adequate accuracy and certainty of data validity is reached by crossreferencing the GPS-timestamped data dumps at the FR24 central infrastructure end.

    External USB drive support would be nice, but it has to be built in a fashion where all forms of abuse (like USB stick removal) is handled gracefully - at least a reboot should recover the normal usage situation.

    Those of us who use the USB port to power the active antenna bias-T would need a passthrough USB cable. Power consumption of bias-T + USB-memorystick should be able to be handled with ease (NO spinning HD:s)
    As far as I am aware the use of active antennae's is not permitted on the FR24 box, you agree to operate it with the equipment supplied and nothing else unless they have given you specific permission.
    Therefore the USB port should always be unused and such issues don't arise, however if you are a non 'F' feeder with your own equipment you can connect whatever you like.
    Data security should also be a non-issue as it can be encrypted and timestamped.
    Ben.

    Leave a comment:


  • solibra
    replied
    Originally posted by GMR234 View Post
    Was that a change of track (course) from the FO pulling the heading knob on the FCU or from the FMGS changing the course as set in the flight plan (ie, Lateral navigation in Managed mode)?
    The heading change to 25 dgr occurs just above the ADITA navaid. I think its fair to assume that this was part of their FMS flight plan. Also, as Patrick already noted, they were doing the same thing on previous flights.

    I think the allegation that he planned to crash at this specific location is bollocks. First of all, south of France, especially Aix-en-Provence/Nizza is a very popular holiday destination for Germans. So the fact that he was there before means exactly nothing. Secondly, this theory would require not only psychotic but also psychic capabilities on the FO side (as in knowing at what moment of the flight the PIC would feel the urge to empty his bladder).
    Last edited by solibra; 2015-03-28, 20:03.

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  • Patrick Reeves
    replied
    Was that a change of track (course) from the FO pulling the heading knob on the FCU or from the FMGS
    After replaying flight 4U9524 from 3/23/15, I think it was FMS- the heading changes from 42 to 24 in the same place. It's still odd because the descent begins immediately after the heading change and the news is now reporting that he used to visit the Alps very close to the crash site as a child.




    http://www.flightradar24.com/2015-03...GWI18G/5d219f2

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  • solibra
    replied
    Originally posted by SolarLiner View Post
    The A380 is my favorite local product.
    It's my favorite local product too! Even though i am from HAM and not TLS

    Leave a comment:


  • GMR234
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Reeves View Post
    09:30:17Z.905 ROLL: 0L TTRACK: 41 TAS: 450kt

    The autopilot initiated a course change from 420to 250 30 seconds before ALT was manually changed.

    New course of 250 was achieved as AC began descent.


    09:38:17Z.046 ROLL: 0L TTRACK: 26

    last ttrack data transmit at 13700 ft.
    Was that a change of track (course) from the FO pulling the heading knob on the FCU or from the FMGS changing the course as set in the flight plan (ie, Lateral navigation in Managed mode)? If it's the former, then that has VERY significant ramifications, because it means the FO was following standard Emergency Descent procedures (due to depressurization).

    Is there anyway the FR24 system can determine whether the FCU Heading had been changed?

    Leave a comment:


  • jumpjack
    replied
    flight 4U9525.zip

    I attach my version of Google Earth KML file for final trajectory, and the Excel Macro I used to obtain it from your raw data (thanks for them):

    Code:
    Const PM = "    <Placemark>" & vbCrLf & _
            "<name></name>" & vbCrLf & _
            "    <TimeStamp><when>2015-03-24T#timestamp#Z</when></TimeStamp>" & vbCrLf & _
            "<LookAt>" & vbCrLf & _
                    "<begin>2015-03-24T#begin#Z</begin>" & vbCrLf & _
                    "<end>2015-03-24T#end#Z</end>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<longitude>#lon#</longitude>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<latitude>#lat#</latitude>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<altitude>#alt#</altitude>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<heading>#head#</heading>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<tilt>65.15523262280593</tilt>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<range>23315.45141798362</range>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<gx:altitudeMode>absolute</gx:altitudeMode>" & vbCrLf & _
            "</LookAt>" & vbCrLf & _
            "<styleUrl>#msn_shaded_dot</styleUrl>" & vbCrLf & _
            "<Point>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<altitudeMode>absolute</altitudeMode>" & vbCrLf & _
                "<coordinates>#lon#,#lat#,#alt#</coordinates>" & vbCrLf & _
            "</Point>" & vbCrLf & _
        "</Placemark>"
        
        
    Const HEADER = "<?xml version=""1.0"" encoding=""UTF-8""?>" & vbCrLf & _
    "<kml xmlns=""http://www.opengis.net/kml/2.2"" xmlns:gx=""http://www.google.com/kml/ext/2.2"" xmlns:kml=""http://www.opengis.net/kml/2.2"" xmlns:atom=""http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"">" & vbCrLf & _
    "<Document>  <name>esempio.kml</name>    <open>1</open>  <StyleMap id=""msn_shaded_dot"">" & vbCrLf & _
            "<Pair>          <key>normal</key>           <styleUrl>#sn_shaded_dot</styleUrl>     </Pair>     <Pair>          <key>highlight</key>            <styleUrl>#sh_shaded_dot</styleUrl>" & vbCrLf & _
            "</Pair> </StyleMap> <Style id=""sh_shaded_dot"">        <IconStyle>         <scale>0.466667</scale>         <Icon>              <href>http://maps.google.com/mapfiles/kml/shapes/shaded_dot.png</href>" & vbCrLf & _
                "</Icon>     </IconStyle>        <ListStyle>     </ListStyle>    </Style>    <Style id=""sn_shaded_dot"">" & vbCrLf & _
            "<IconStyle>         <scale>0.4</scale>          <Icon>              <href>http://maps.google.com/mapfiles/kml/shapes/shaded_dot.png</href>" & vbCrLf & _
                "</Icon>     </IconStyle>        <ListStyle>     </ListStyle>    </Style>"
        
    Const FOOTER = "</Document></kml>"
    
        
    
        
    Sub ProcessData()
    Filename = "N:\Users\luca\Downloads\GWI18G_mode_s+adsb.txt"
    OutFile2 = "N:\Users\luca\Downloads\out.txt"
    OutFile3 = "N:\Users\luca\Downloads\out-metric.txt"
    OutFile4 = "N:\Users\luca\Downloads\out-metric.kml"
    Open Filename For Input As #1
    Open OutFile2 For Output As #2
    Open OutFile3 For Output As #3
    Open OutFile4 For Output As #4
    Print #4, HEADER
        While Not EOF(1)
            Tempo = "09:18:17"
            Line Input #1, a$
            Debug.Print vbCrLf & a$;
            If InStr(a$, "TTRACK") > 0 Then
                Heading = LTrim(Replace(Mid$(a$, InStr(a$, "TTRACK") + 7, 4), Chr(194), ""))
            End If
            If InStr(a$, "GWI18G") > 0 Then
                TempoPrec = Tempo
                Tempo = Mid$(a$, 1, 8)
                Lat = Mid$(a$, 24, 8)
                Lon = Mid$(a$, 34, 8)
                lun = InStr(43, a$, ",") - 43
                Quota = Mid$(a$, 43, lun)
                KML_Line = Replace(PM, "#lat#", Lat)
                KML_Line = Replace(KML_Line, "#lon#", Lon)
                KML_Line = Replace(KML_Line, "#alt#", Quota * 0.3048)
                KML_Line = Replace(KML_Line, "#head#", Heading)
                KML_Line = Replace(KML_Line, "#begin#", TempoPrec)
                KML_Line = Replace(KML_Line, "#end#", Tempo)
                KML_Line = Replace(KML_Line, "#timestamp#", Tempo)
                Print #2, Tempo, Lat, Lon, Quota
                Print #3, Tempo, Lat, Lon, Quota * 0.3048
                Print #4, KML_Line
                Debug.Print "***"
            End If
        Wend
    Print #4, FOOTER
    Close #4
    Close #3
    Close #2
    Close #1
    
    End Sub
    Of course you must change the paths of the input and output files.

    I wonder why media declare the plane crashed at 2600 meters, when it actually crashed 1100 meters lower and 3 km before the point visible in most pictures!

    Real impact site:

    http://www.gettyimages.it/detail/fot...naca/467431104

    Media impact site:

    Leave a comment:


  • NorthObserver
    replied
    Originally posted by Charky View Post
    I think it is ok to store this kind of data inside the box/sdcard (encrypted?). If you store it "outside" like on an USB-device the data could be changed easily and you might lose confidence.
    Well, the FR24 box is not a tamper-proof device itself. These are (semi) hobbyist equipment. I think adequate accuracy and certainty of data validity is reached by crossreferencing the GPS-timestamped data dumps at the FR24 central infrastructure end.

    External USB drive support would be nice, but it has to be built in a fashion where all forms of abuse (like USB stick removal) is handled gracefully - at least a reboot should recover the normal usage situation.

    Those of us who use the USB port to power the active antenna bias-T would need a passthrough USB cable. Power consumption of bias-T + USB-memorystick should be able to be handled with ease (NO spinning HD:s)

    Leave a comment:


  • SolarLiner
    replied
    Originally posted by solibra View Post
    @Mike, it seems a bit strange that as soon as the aircraft descends VRATE is not reported anymore. There should be negative rates there.
    Are you sure that the VRATE subfield in the BDS60h register packets after 09:30:50 is not populated during the entire 10 minutes of descend?
    The VRATE scale only show positive values. It is possible that it went negative and went out of the chart boundaries.

    EDIT: Nope you're right, I checked the raw data and no VRATE data after the 0930Z mark
    Last edited by SolarLiner; 2015-03-28, 16:33.

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  • solibra
    replied
    @Mike, it seems a bit strange that as soon as the aircraft descends VRATE is not reported anymore. There should be negative rates there.
    Are you sure that the VRATE subfield in the BDS60h register packets after 09:30:50 is not populated during the entire 10 minutes of descend?

    @aligot Python script + plot.ly API (They have a web app too)

    Leave a comment:


  • Charky
    replied
    I think it is ok to store this kind of data inside the box/sdcard (encrypted?). If you store it "outside" like on an USB-device the data could be changed easily and you might lose confidence.

    Leave a comment:

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