Malaysian B777 MH17 crash - poss shot down

[1090 MHz]

I think the photo now was really taken by Kor Pan as facebook says it's a mobile upload on July 17 near Schiphol, Netherlands. It's also the last thing he posted to his Facebook page. As for it being an RC or an RD well I took a closer look at that.

First I got a copy of what the RC and RD looked like from both aircraft.

9M-MRC

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=434811

9M-MRD

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=437417

Then I enlarged all 3 of the photos .... it's clear to me without a doubt that it's an RD not an RC. The real C is much more round then the D. What we have here is just a D that looks like a C because of a light reflection.

See here: http://ads-b.ca/RC-or-RD.jpg

[Sergej Kuznetsov]

What we have here is just a D that looks like a C because of a light reflection.

Thanks for the info but also take a look a R it is also equally distorted and not as round as in RC on the right (in you comparative picture).
I don't think that it is a reflection. 90% sure.

+ one more thing. Why would anyone search some old photo and upload it to FB when it is much easier to just take a picture and upload it almost in one tap? That's weird.
Perhaps, he thought of it when he was already on board...

[SoCalBrian]

US: NO EVIDENCE OF DIRECT RUSSIAN LINK TO PLANE

Jul. 22, 2014 5:01 PM EDT

Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.

The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.

They said they didn't know if any Russians were present at the missile launch, and they wouldn't say that the missile crew was trained in Russia.

A senior official said the most likely explanation was the plane was shot down by mistake.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-present-intelligence-data-plane-crash-0

[tester]

F-UKHH1 simply indicates Kharkiv is the closest AIRPORT to the receiver location. Generally the airspace it is likely to cover. It doesn't mean thats where it is, it could be 100nm away, but cover with 300nm radius.

No, it does not effect the quality. The GPS co-ordinates come from the aicraft itself. Sent to the transponder, and broadcast to be received by the hardware on the ground.

Can you confirm the correctness of the last position 13:21:28 490 kts 33000 ft 48.0403 38.7728 taken from https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...48864/photo/1?

Its real ads-b, not data interpolated and really physically observed value receiver value?

[1090 MHz]

Can you confirm the correctness of the last position 13:21:28 490 kts 33000 ft 48.0403 38.7728 taken from https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...48864/photo/1?

Its real ads-b, not data interpolated and really physically observed value receiver value?

The flight parameters provided by an ADS-B link are real and coming directly from the aircraft's own flight management computers. The ground station receivers simply receive the data and pass it on to ATC and or the FR24 servers.

More about how ADS-B works:

http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2014%20ADSBSITF13/SP13_Boeing%20-%20ADS-B%20Perspective.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance-broadcast

[1090 MHz]

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2014/07/22/335396.htm

Having re-routed away from Ukraine, Flight MH4 from Kuala Lumpur to London this week crossed Syria, Flightradar24 says — a permitted path but one avoided by several major carriers.

“You don’t find British Airways, United Airlines or Emirates flying over,” said Flightradar24’s Mikael Robertsson. “They’ve been avoiding Syria for more than a year.”

[tester]

The flight parameters provided by an ADS-B link are real and coming directly from the aircraft's own flight management computers. The ground station receivers simply receive the data and pass it on to ATC and or the FR24 servers.

I'm a little familiar with the technology ADS-B.
But my question is about one point 13:21:28 490 kts 33000 ft 48.0403 38.7728, which published flightradar24.
Please tell me she actually received by ADS-B.

[Sergej Kuznetsov]

They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.

1. If it were surface-to-air missile then how come that there are no photos and videos of contrail. That area is densely populated and almost everyone has a camera.
2. The plane had fuel enough for >7 hours of flight. Can you imagine what happens when SAM-missile hits plane with such huge amount of fuel (and even w/o it)? SAM-missile destroys civil planes almost instantly following air burst (with vast area of debris - tens of sq. kms). At the same time there is a video of huge smoke coming from behind the hill. So the plane first hit the ground (possibly broke near the ground) and only then exploded.
3. Concerning the "created conditions". I (from my couch of course) consider "SAM hit version" as very weak. But Ukrainian military deployed SAM systems with more than 20 Buk-M1 near Donetsk (almost on the front line) taking into account that rebels don't have aviation. What do >20 SAMs do there at all?
And if we remember what happened with RA-85693 in 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia...es_Flight_1812) then comes the question: who decided that airspace anywhere near 100 km from Ukrainian SAMs packed with non-professional soldiery is safe? Ukrainian SAMs + civil airplanes is a lethal combination.
Sorry for expressive style.

[Oblivian]

They don't actually make contact with target, They explode nearby. Sending shrapnel (as seen by the larger hunks covered in holes) and a percussion wave to cause destruction, (of course normally intended for smaller jets with a small profile) This doesn't mean it went straight for the wings where an explosion could occur. For all we know it could have stalked and exploded off or near the tail section, cutting the rear bulkhead off and leaving the main fuselage with wings/tanks intact to fall uncontrolably from the sky.

It seems not only were the CVR/FDR (located in either far end of airframe) found quite early on, but a near whole Wing, Tail, Rear bulkhead, Rear door chute were found separate from the impact crater and burnt material and all appear to be quite intact on the ground considering. I not sure we could make the judgement of it being highly populated. Given the number of farmers, empty chicken farms and fields being shown. And 50sq kms is what I would consider a rather vast area, which so far has had debris located and reported. Probably likely to grow.

[MrMickeyG]

MH17 Victim Repatriation Aircraft

The first air force flight has taken off from Ukraine transporting victims to the Netherlands.... using callsign NAF22...

I believe an Australia Galaxy C-17 will also be transporting victims...

[Oblivian]

The first air force flight has taken off from Ukraine transporting victims to the Netherlands.... using callsign NAF22...

I believe an Australia Galaxy C-17 will also be transporting victims...

Spotted about the same time as our own leader

It would appear yes, a RAAF C17 landed 2 days ago (first reported to have 2 on standby). Sadly will also only be MLAT if at all.

And BBC now reporting CVR/FDR on UK soil

[1090 MHz]

I'm a little familiar with the technology ADS-B.
But my question is about one point 13:21:28 490 kts 33000 ft 48.0403 38.7728, which published flightradar24.
Please tell me she actually received by ADS-B.

Yes it was, the data was ADS-B received from the aircraft, and it's highly accurate.

[Oblivian]

Ground video footage also shows G-781 present. Sounds like there may be a few trips made to/from. Should be able to be seen on MLAT near amsterdam and Kharkiv itself

[tester]

Yes it was, the data was ADS-B received from the aircraft, and it's highly accurate.

Thank you for your response.
Can I assume your answer as an official response from the flightradar24 team?

I ask, as from the publication of information https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864 passed 4 days and maybe something has changed the evaluation of data?

[peterhr]

Thank you for your response.
Can I assume your answer as an official response from the flightradar24 team?

I ask, as from the publication of information https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864 passed 4 days and maybe something has changed the evaluation of data?

I wouldn't make that assumption - I don't believe they are (or I am) either on the paid staff of the company or work for the company press or legal offices.

I believe that FR24 in the link you have given have published the data as held in the database, This data is as would have been transmitted from the aircraft without human evaluation. It is possible that the data shown is a subset since it shows the position at 1 minute intervals and according to http://www.icao.int/APAC/Documents/edocs/adsb_aigd4.pdf ADS-B data is transmitted every half second.