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Malaysian B777 MH17 crash - poss shot down

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Mike View Post
    [url]f you Google for MH17 + 13:21 UTC you will find another 7000+ hits. I guess you have not done your home work before you claim that no one posted this.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=MH17...m=122&ie=UTF-8



    It's not so common for media to write "last position was 34.1245" as a normal person have no idea what that means. For example I have never seen an article that there was a car accident or fire at position LON XX.XXX LAT YY.YYY. Instead media draws a map or mentions a city nearby. Some choose to mention a smaller city closer to location, other choose a bigger city far away as more people will recognize the name.

    BTW, the tweet was published in at least 7 articles
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...-we-dont-know/
    http://nos.nl/liveblog/676042-live-v...ergestort.html
    http://pt.euronews.com/2014/07/17/bo...e-da-ucrania-/
    http://fr.euronews.com/2014/07/17/un...se-en-ukraine/
    http://es.euronews.com/2014/07/17/se...te-de-ucrania/
    http://arabic.euronews.com/2014/07/1...-east-ukraine/
    http://www.elcomercio.com/actualidad...s-ucrania.html
    Ok, so I've done a bit more homework

    and there is one more possible:
    http://yess.de/gab-der-ukrainische-s...7-zu-2816.html

    Actually, the German Wikipedia page also has the location:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia-Airlines-Flug_17
    "Die letzten automatisch übertragenen Signale des ADS-B-Flugüberwachungssystems wurden um 13:21:28 Uhr UTC von der Position ♁48° 2′ 25″ N, 38° 46′ 22″ O (Höhe 33.000 Fuß, Kurs 118°) empfangen." Citing FR24 as the source.

    Comment


    • #92
      We are very well aware of that the crash site is 15 km before last signal. Currently we can't explain it on any other way than winds or maybe aircraft turning around if it lost a wing or stabilizer (Wild speculation. I don't say it happened, just say that this could explain why aircraft turned back). We will have to wait for the black box data to get the answers. I for sure trust the data we have received and it looks like our data can be confirmed by another source

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Mike View Post
        I for sure trust the data we have received and it looks like our data can be confirmed
        I'm confident also that it will be - but no speculation from me.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Mike View Post
          I for sure trust the data we have received and it looks like our data can be confirmed by another source
          Per that thread,
          FR24 Hasn't released any RAW data to compare it with any other source.
          PlanePlotter hasn't released any RAW data to the public to compare it with other possible sources like FR24.

          Will FR24 Release any RAW data from the aircraft that did the above MH17 flight ?

          My guess FR24 won't be releasing any Raw Data from the MH17 Crash.
          Last edited by SoCalBrian; 2014-07-24, 20:16.
          Brian

          www.RadarSpotters.eu
          [ Feeder Station List ][ Map ][ Latest Feeders Rank Stats ][ ImRadarFeeder.com Radar Feeders WorldWide Map ][ VRS Feeder List ] (NEW)

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          • #95
            Originally posted by SoCalBrian View Post
            Will FR24 Release any RAW data from the aircraft that did the above MH17 flight ?
            Out of curiosity, what would raw data add to the data from the tweet?

            Comment


            • #96
              I would like to attract attention to two photos. on the photo in this thread, post #53 the cockpit panel is heavily damaged with missile shrapnel. as well you can easily google for the photos of the tail parts, the wreckages of stabilizers have no penetrating holes. that's mean the missile exploded in front of cockpit, it is typical behavior of surface-air missile

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              • #97
                Hi,

                I would like some help tracking these three planes history and getting the most recent photos of them. Can you experts please direct me. And if anyone has their own photos please share them or keep them safe. :-)

                MH370 Boeing Serial number 28420
                MH17 Boeing Serial number 28411
                Seen in Tel Aviv Boeing serial number 28416 was a Malaysian Plane

                http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/0...flag-attack-j/

                Thank you very much.

                Sea Petal

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sea Petal View Post
                  Hi,

                  I would like some help tracking these three planes history and getting the most recent photos of them. Can you experts please direct me. And if anyone has their own photos please share them or keep them safe. :-)

                  MH370 Boeing Serial number 28420
                  MH17 Boeing Serial number 28411
                  Seen in Tel Aviv Boeing serial number 28416 was a Malaysian Plane

                  http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/0...flag-attack-j/

                  Thank you very much.

                  Sea Petal
                  Updating what I found from plane spotters...

                  MH370 Boeing 28420
                  http://www.planespotters.net/search.php?q=28420

                  MH17 Boeing 28411
                  http://www.planespotters.net/search.php?q=28411

                  Boeing 28416 possibly seen in January at Ovda ?
                  http://www.planespotters.net/Aviatio....php?tag=28416

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Hi Mike

                    Why is there no flight record for Boeing 28416 9M MRI ?
                    http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mri/
                    Or Boeing 28411 9M MRD
                    http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mrd/
                    Or Boeing 28420 9M MRO
                    http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mro/

                    Do you have it stored?

                    Thanks!
                    Last edited by Sea Petal; 2014-07-24, 23:46.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sea Petal View Post
                      Hi Mike

                      Why is there no flight record for Boeing 28416 9M MRI ?
                      http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mri/
                      Or Boeing 28411 9M MRD
                      http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mrd/
                      Or Boeing 28420 9M MRO
                      http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mro/

                      Do you have it stored?

                      Thanks!
                      It turns out
                      Boeing 28416 a previous Malaysian plane was acquired by Gat Telesis and is being dismantled in Isreal
                      http://www.gatelesis.com/?s=MSN+28416

                      The second Malaysian Boeing 28418 is also now owned by Gat Telesis but not sure where it is being dismantled
                      http://www.gatelesis.com/ga-telesis-...and-757-200er/

                      What are the odds? A Malaysian plane goes completely missing and 5 months later we have not found a single piece of that plane or have any concrete evidence of where it is.
                      Then a second Malaysian plane almost identical is involved in an international war incident and crashes just months later. Meanwhile identical planes are being dismantled in two different places previous to the disappearance and crash. There were two other planes in the air over the Ukraine at the same time but it was the Malaysian plane that gets shot down. It just doesn't feel right at all. Bizarre and treacherous.
                      Last edited by Sea Petal; 2014-07-25, 00:29.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sea Petal View Post
                        There were two other planes in the air over the Ukraine at the same time but it was the Malaysian plane that gets shot down. It just doesn't feel right at all. Bizarre and treacherous.
                        Malaysian 33,000 feet
                        Singapore 35,000 feet
                        Air India 40,000 feet

                        Looks to me like the Malaysian was just flying the lowest making it the easiest of the 3 targets to hit.
                        www.ADS-B.ca

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sea Petal View Post
                          It turns out
                          Boeing 28416 a previous Malaysian plane was acquired by Gat Telesis and is being dismantled in Isreal
                          http://www.gatelesis.com/?s=MSN+28416

                          The second Malaysian Boeing 28418 is also now owned by Gat Telesis but not sure where it is being dismantled
                          http://www.gatelesis.com/ga-telesis-...and-757-200er/

                          What are the odds? A Malaysian plane goes completely missing and 5 months later we have not found a single piece of that plane or have any concrete evidence of where it is.
                          Then a second Malaysian plane almost identical is involved in an international war incident and crashes just months later. Meanwhile identical planes are being dismantled in two different places previous to the disappearance and crash.
                          How about the EgyptAir 777 that had the cockpit fire just as it was getting ready to take-off... Its MSN was 28423

                          http://www.planespotters.net/Product...P-EgyptAir.php

                          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ing-plane.html

                          http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7/0000
                          Last edited by 1090 MHz; 2014-07-25, 02:11.
                          www.ADS-B.ca

                          Comment


                          • The AV Herald states "The aircraft was found to differ from Boeing's design in that a clamp supporting the first officer's wiring to the oxygen mask light panel was missing. The wiring was not sleeved and a large loop of unsupported wire was found. The investigation determined that about 280 aircraft including all of Egyptair's Boeing 777s were delivered that way."

                            Is there a way to find out whether the MH370 aircraft was among the 280?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mike View Post
                              The heading was recorded by FR24 and was published 3 hours after the crash
                              https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864

                              Before MH370 almost no media trusted FR24 data. During the first 10 hours after it disappeared I contacted every big media in the world to tell them that signal was lost outside of Malaysia, and not in China where the search was focused on for first 10 hours. No one cared. After some weeks it was found that FR24 had the last tracked data of MH370 and that it was correct. After that we gained some confidence in media.
                              When MH17 disappearance was announced it took only about 5 minutes for FR24 to become overloaded as everybody was looking for FR24 as the primary source for data. We posted our raw data from database about 3 hours after the crash, and as far as I have seen this is the best data we have today. Several journalist have called us to verify 13:21 UTC as the time when last signal was picked up and I have seen this time in several media around the world. Example: http://www.theguardian.com/world/gra...th-map-ukraine
                              Some media use other timings with everything between 13:00 and 14:00 as last signal time.

                              There are 200+ mentions on Google with last position: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+%2238.7728%22 (this search is just matching on the raw data, there could be more mentions with less decimals, conversion to other format or just a map).
                              Hi Mike.

                              I wanted to suggest you that flightradar24 data of last known position/time could turn out to be extrapolated, maybe by your software, because it seems that in another crash case at least, last position from other sources were more accurate.

                              I still haven't checked out other cases so I may be wrong, but I'll take the example of the reported lost plane N36ML - 09/12/2013 :
                              http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=162600

                              Here is a comparision between different flight trackers and the conclusion :
                              https://sites.google.com/site/search...technical-data

                              "Another site with radar tracking information is flightradar24. Please note that the last few data points reported by flightradar appear to be extrapolations, and are not considered to be real data."
                              "There are discrepancies between these two data sources. It is believed that the data comes from the same source (not separate radar towers), so some points may be extrapolations. Searchers in Idaho (who would have had more detailed information) appeared to be using the coordinates from flightaware as the last know coordinates and heading of the plane."


                              Back to MH17, I have three sources :

                              - flightradar24 (13:21:28Z, N48.0403 E38.7728)
                              https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...348864/photo/1

                              - flightaware (13:19Z, N48.1350 E38.5030)
                              http://fr.flightaware.com/live/fligh.../WMKK/tracklog

                              - the Aviation Herald (13:20Z, N48.1230 E38.5258) (Emergency Locator Transmitter)
                              http://www.avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

                              Note that "the transponder data became unreliable at 13:18Z (position N48.28 E38.08) and was lost at FL330 at 13:20Z."


                              The last two sources are perfectly consistent with the crash zone, when at least the last data from flightradar24 (after 13:19:16) appears to be perfectly irrelevant :
                              flightradar24-WEB2.jpg

                              Note also that their distance from the further debris (approx. 11km) is also consistent with balistic coefficients shown in this excellent post :
                              570_900.png
                              http://0serg.livejournal.com/146553.html


                              I would fully agree with you to wait for the investigation results, if your data weren't used to disinform during an international crisis, and fuel such florishing conspiracy theories :
                              http://nikolay-istomin.livejournal.com/3057934.html
                              http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/2...e-flag-attack/

                              So if reliability of your system was confirmed to be doubtfull for last position data, please let us know, because in spite of that, everyone knows flightradar24 remains excellent.

                              And if I'm wrong, apologies.
                              Last edited by SAï; 2014-07-27, 21:29.

                              Comment


                              • As stated many times now, the published data is the raw data from database and not from the web page.
                                Flightaware didn't have any data in this area. They have added one raw of data from unknown source manually afterwards.
                                No matter how much we speculate, we will not get any answers before we have data from the black boxes.

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