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Malaysian B777 MH17 crash - poss shot down

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  • #76
    last location

    Originally posted by 1090 MHz View Post
    Yes it was, the data was ADS-B received from the aircraft, and it's highly accurate.
    So it was overhead Snizhne [about 15km from the crash site] and heading away from the crash site. Am I reading this correctly??

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Montenegro View Post
      So it was overhead Snizhne [about 15km from the crash site] and heading away from the crash site. Am I reading this correctly??
      I think the team FR24 needs to make a declaration about the data https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864.
      I have always regarded with trust to information from FR24.
      But now a lot of messages in the network over the falsification of the flight MH17 details by FR24 and Flightaware.
      And the situation with the data only adds evidence that the data had been falsified by FR24.
      This assertion is based on data Embassy of Ukraine in the USA.

      If you've seen the scheme of the U.S. government -
      https://www.facebook.com/usdos.ukrai...556936/?type=1

      The aircraft MH17 could not be at a point 13:21:28 490 kts 33000 ft 48.0403 38.7728.
      This point is located on Snizhne.
      Under the scheme of the U.S. Embassy, he was shot down much earlier.

      Why team FR24 falsified flight MH17 details?
      Last edited by tester; 2014-07-23, 20:33.

      Comment


      • #78
        If you take the data from the tweet and plot it with http://www.latlong.net/ (there are probably better ways?) the crash site makes perfect sense compared to the known points (from that tweet) of the flight track. There is - afaik - no public available and trustworthy data other then the fr24 database, which is based on what (plane) instruments measure and disclose through ads-b. We don't know what US based their schematic picture on but it seems to me to be somehow in perspective (there is a horizon) which might give a skewed view.
        The only facts publicaly available are the coordinates the plane sent through ads-b and were picked up by a fr24 receiver, and the crash location. The rest is speculation.
        Last edited by jhmb; 2014-07-23, 21:53.

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        • #79
          FR24 receives what the transponder sends out, which is picked up by a receiver(s). FR24 have no reason to falsify the data it receives. As a FR24 feeder, I take offence to any suggestions that data is falsified, FR24 has zero reasons to do so.
          F-YSWG1 and T-YSWG2

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          • #80
            And as pointed out many times, Flightaware relies on uploaders like here, and also satellite uplink data.

            A big different is FR24 servers receive updates every 4-8 seconds from different locations and log this in the track. However if you check the FA logs (which if everyone would actually take the time to click on and see)
            http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M.../WMKK/tracklog
            you will see the updates they log are only made every 1-2 mins. And at the time of loss there was over an hour gap until the last entry was made - possibly manually.

            Take what they are using in the media with a grain of salt.

            In that 2minutes, at 914km/h an additional 30kms could be covered (and of course the ground speed figures are not equal to airspeed for various reasons)
            Last edited by Oblivian; 2014-07-23, 23:30.
            Posts not to be taken as official support representation - Just a helpful uploader who tinkers

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            • #81
              Originally posted by tester View Post
              I think the team FR24 needs to make a declaration about the data https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864.
              I have always regarded with trust to information from FR24.
              But now a lot of messages in the network over the falsification of the flight MH17 details by FR24 and Flightaware.
              And the situation with the data only adds evidence that the data had been falsified by FR24.
              This assertion is based on data Embassy of Ukraine in the USA.

              If you've seen the scheme of the U.S. government -
              https://www.facebook.com/usdos.ukrai...556936/?type=1

              The aircraft MH17 could not be at a point 13:21:28 490 kts 33000 ft 48.0403 38.7728.
              This point is located on Snizhne.
              Under the scheme of the U.S. Embassy, he was shot down much earlier.

              Why team FR24 falsified flight MH17 details?
              What falsifications are you talking about. We published raw data 3 hours after that crash and we have not changed a single byte since that (you can't change or edit a post on Twitter). Where does all this suspiciousness and conspiracy conspiracy theories come from?
              I don't know what data an embassy have published and were they did get it, but I'm 100% sure that the black boxes will confirm FR24 data. If your agenda is calling us liars I suggest finding some other place to express you fantasies.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Mike View Post
                What falsifications are you talking about...
                As I already wrote:
                Post http://signor-antonio.livejournal.com/378722.html contains screens of MH17 route for 14-17 July. Again, I know that they are taken from flightaware. Again, I remember what you wrote that their data can't be correct in this area. But I want to point out that:
                a) now, on flightaware they are much more different. Just compare 14 July. Again, I am not asking you to comment on what is going on on some other web-site;
                b) when I read the abovementioned post earlier and compared the mentioned routes with that on FR24, I didn't find any difference. Everything was like on flightaware. I clearly remember it. Moreover, if it weren't so, I would notice it;
                c) currently routes on flightaware and FR24 for 14-17 July are again the same (but differ from the screens taken on 17 July).

                I am still not accusing anybody of anything. I don't have any screens or whatever. I am just wondering out loud. May be there is some clear explanation to all this oddities. May be someone else has access to your DB...

                P.S. I am not calling you a liar. I just expressed what I saw.

                Comment


                • #83
                  So I think my question has been answered - I did read it correctly: the last transmission was overhead Snizhne. Was the heading also recorded by FR24? What I find amazing is that I cannot find a single mention in the media of the actual location of the final transmission from MH17.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Montenegro View Post
                    So I think my question has been answered - I did read it correctly: the last transmission was overhead Snizhne. Was the heading also recorded by FR24? What I find amazing is that I cannot find a single mention in the media of the actual location of the final transmission from MH17.
                    The heading was recorded by FR24 and was published 3 hours after the crash
                    https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864

                    Before MH370 almost no media trusted FR24 data. During the first 10 hours after it disappeared I contacted every big media in the world to tell them that signal was lost outside of Malaysia, and not in China where the search was focused on for first 10 hours. No one cared. After some weeks it was found that FR24 had the last tracked data of MH370 and that it was correct. After that we gained some confidence in media.
                    When MH17 disappearance was announced it took only about 5 minutes for FR24 to become overloaded as everybody was looking for FR24 as the primary source for data. We posted our raw data from database about 3 hours after the crash, and as far as I have seen this is the best data we have today. Several journalist have called us to verify 13:21 UTC as the time when last signal was picked up and I have seen this time in several media around the world. Example: http://www.theguardian.com/world/gra...th-map-ukraine
                    Some media use other timings with everything between 13:00 and 14:00 as last signal time.

                    There are 200+ mentions on Google with last position: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+%2238.7728%22 (this search is just matching on the raw data, there could be more mentions with less decimals, conversion to other format or just a map).

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Mike View Post
                      The heading was recorded by FR24 and was published 3 hours after the crash
                      https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...06795725348864

                      Before MH370 almost no media trusted FR24 data. After some weeks it was found that FR24 had the last tracked data of MH370 and that it was correct. After that we gained some confidence in media.
                      When MH17 disappearance was announced it took only about 5 minutes for FR24 to become overloaded as everybody was looking for FR24 as the primary source for data. We posted our raw data from database about 3 hours after the crash, and as far as I have seen this is the best data we have today. Several journalist have called us to verify 13:21 UTC as the time when last signal was picked up and I have seen this time in several media around the world. Example: http://www.theguardian.com/world/gra...th-map-ukraine
                      Some media use other timings with everything between 13:00 and 14:00 as last signal time.

                      200 mentions on Google with last position: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+%2238.7728%22
                      My apologies, should've been more specific - I meant media that would be considered a "reliable source" by Wikipedia. Don't ask - it's very complex

                      FR24: considered primary source by Wikipedias and so NOT usable.
                      Twitter : sorry
                      Guardian: OK, but doesn't mention the location (only the time). Maybe you could get in touch with them again and get them to publish the location?
                      200 mentions: I'll look at these and get back to you if I find one that qualifies
                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Sergej Kuznetsov View Post
                        P.S. I am not calling you a liar. I just expressed what I saw.
                        Not you, but the person I quoted claims that we falsified the data and that we are lying.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Montenegro View Post
                          Guardian: OK, but doesn't mention the location (only the time). Maybe you could get in touch with them again and get them to publish the location?
                          http://www.theguardian.com/world/gra...th-map-ukraine
                          MH17 is reportedly hit by a missile while flying over Ukraine at about 13:21 (UTC/GMT) and crashes near the village of Grabovo in an area controlled by pro-Russia separatists

                          If you Google for MH17 + 13:21 UTC you will find another 7000+ hits. I guess you have not done your home work before you claim that no one posted this.
                          https://www.google.com/search?q=MH17...m=122&ie=UTF-8

                          Originally posted by Montenegro View Post
                          200 mentions: I'll look at these and get back to you if I find one that qualifies
                          Thanks
                          It's not so common for media to write "last position was 34.1245" as a normal person have no idea what that means. For example I have never seen an article that there was a car accident or fire at position LON XX.XXX LAT YY.YYY. Instead media draws a map or mentions a city nearby. Some choose to mention a smaller city closer to location, other choose a bigger city far away as more people will recognize the name.

                          BTW, the tweet was published in at least 7 articles
                          http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...-we-dont-know/
                          http://nos.nl/liveblog/676042-live-v...ergestort.html
                          http://pt.euronews.com/2014/07/17/bo...e-da-ucrania-/
                          http://fr.euronews.com/2014/07/17/un...se-en-ukraine/
                          http://es.euronews.com/2014/07/17/se...te-de-ucrania/
                          http://arabic.euronews.com/2014/07/1...-east-ukraine/
                          http://www.elcomercio.com/actualidad...s-ucrania.html

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Mike: thanks again. Been through the 208 and only ONE passes:

                            http://www.ouest-france.fr/crash-en-...l-mh17-2707586

                            Will look at the other 7 soon

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Mike View Post
                              http://www.theguardian.com/world/gra...th-map-ukraine
                              MH17 is reportedly hit by a missile while flying over Ukraine at about 13:21 (UTC/GMT) and crashes near the village of Grabovo in an area controlled by pro-Russia separatists
                              You probably think I'm being pedantic but: this does not state the last known location-transmission. The crash site is about 15km BACK from that.

                              Originally posted by Mike View Post
                              . . . I guess you have not done your home work before you claim that no one posted this.
                              I'm actually on your side here - no need to get personal.
                              Last edited by Montenegro; 2014-07-24, 09:22. Reason: typo

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Mike View Post
                                [url]f you Google for MH17 + 13:21 UTC you will find another 7000+ hits. I guess you have not done your home work before you claim that no one posted this.
                                https://www.google.com/search?q=MH17...m=122&ie=UTF-8



                                It's not so common for media to write "last position was 34.1245" as a normal person have no idea what that means. For example I have never seen an article that there was a car accident or fire at position LON XX.XXX LAT YY.YYY. Instead media draws a map or mentions a city nearby. Some choose to mention a smaller city closer to location, other choose a bigger city far away as more people will recognize the name.

                                BTW, the tweet was published in at least 7 articles
                                http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...-we-dont-know/
                                http://nos.nl/liveblog/676042-live-v...ergestort.html
                                http://pt.euronews.com/2014/07/17/bo...e-da-ucrania-/
                                http://fr.euronews.com/2014/07/17/un...se-en-ukraine/
                                http://es.euronews.com/2014/07/17/se...te-de-ucrania/
                                http://arabic.euronews.com/2014/07/1...-east-ukraine/
                                http://www.elcomercio.com/actualidad...s-ucrania.html
                                Ok, so I've done a bit more homework

                                and there is one more possible:
                                http://yess.de/gab-der-ukrainische-s...7-zu-2816.html

                                Actually, the German Wikipedia page also has the location:
                                https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia-Airlines-Flug_17
                                "Die letzten automatisch übertragenen Signale des ADS-B-Flugüberwachungssystems wurden um 13:21:28 Uhr UTC von der Position ♁48° 2′ 25″ N, 38° 46′ 22″ O (Höhe 33.000 Fuß, Kurs 118°) empfangen." Citing FR24 as the source.

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