Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China - Flight MH370

[Speed Daemon]

I would like clarification on how things work.

The Inmarsat SwiftBroadband service is IP-based, so it's pretty standard except for the hardware and data link layers. I'm not going to teach a course on IP networking here, but if you're familiar with how the Transmission Control Protocol works, you know that it's a 2-way conversation. I provided a couple of relevant Wikipedia links, and you can always learn more at www.inmarsat.com. If you don't know the Inmarsat name, you should. Inmarsat is THE satellite communications company for airmen, seamen and anyone who travels outside of the civilized world.

The "pings" were being heard seven hours later. The ACARS unit was sending regular bursts of data every half hour or so, the last being 0107h. If the satcom stopped working at 0121h, I suppose future ACARS data stopped too, being dependant on the other system. These pings must be something else?

The evidence says that the satcom radio and ACARS unit were operating all the way to the end. The failure theory is still only a theory.

The only thing that ACARS is dependent on is a power supply. The ACARS box on this plane probably used a pair of Airinc 429 connections to the plane's avionics LAN (not to be confused with the 3 ARINC 629 data busses used by the fly-by-wire system -- sorry, no Wikipedia entry for this, and Airinc charges $hundreds for their papers), and probably a simple computer-style serial link to the satcom radio. It's those Airinc 429 connectors that former NTSB "go team" leader John Cox was referring to today. Cox and fellow NTSB alum Gerg Feith appear in numerous aviation-related documentaries, and have been commentators for NBC and other networks during this event. Their credentials are sterling, and what either of them say on the record can be considered to be authoritative.

[misha]

No, we know that the satcom was working because it was linking to Inmarsat.

An hour ago I saw John Cox, formerly of the NTSB, on TV and he said very distinctly that the latest evidence says that the ACARS unit was unplugged from the data bus. According to Cox, it has been the ACARS unit, not just the satcom radio that had been sending what they called on the news "pings" to the Inmarsat satellite. That's HUGE!!!

If the information that Cox got is accurate, then there's no doubt any more that it was human intervention, not equipment failure as the primary cause of this! According to Cox, it takes someone with the sort of knowledge that an avionics tech, not necessarily a pilot, would have. Earlier on someone asked if someone could have carried something onto the plane that could take control of it. Well, though nobody could fly the plane using a cellphone, it might be that someone with a toolbox.

It might be my message (494) you are referring to. All I was asking was it possible for passengers take in their hand luggage any specialist electronic devices to aid or assist them in taking over the plane or disabling or other means to take control. According to some info given out there were some specialists on board as well as 1 or 3 (depending on who you believe) flight engineers. I realise it might be a long shot but with no other rational reason for losing a plane I suppose all ideas must be considered. Maybe someone with this knowledge could look through the xray machines photos/data (if there kept) to see what people took on board. Even if my theory is way-off-the-mark it might turn up something else that might provide clues for other theories.

[Speed Daemon]

just a pure shot in the dark..........how about malaysian airforce took it down! today reports that the senior captain was strong supporter of the opposition leader, who got inprisonded a few hours before the flght!

maybe pilot held claims to malaysian government?

Interestingly enough I posited the exact same thing a few pages back while discussing the technical details of how military radar gets altitude information from planes not sending secondary surveillance radar data! It's chilling to think that the Malaysian military aimed its weapons at their own national airline's plane, but that's the most probable way that they got the altitude data.

Needless to say, it raises serious questions about why the military was tracking this flight as a bogie before any sign of things going wrong!

[Speed Daemon]

What makes you think that anybody was in charge of the plane?

If we are to believe the claims of the various Malaysian officials, someone was entering positive control inputs into the plane to make it turn and change altitude. Someone turned off the transponder and disconnected the data in links (but not power) to the ACARS box. Someone with that level of access was either in charge of the aircraft, or following orders of the person in charge. This wasn't "spam in a can" by all reports.

[Speed Daemon]

INMARSAT (approx) position http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26503141 (Please forgive 'Auntie' Beeb for her poor understanding of the tech stuff, she is over 90 years old...) But that picture at the top confirms my earlier guess that the satellite was located at the centre of the tracking arc. Geo-stationary? It even seems to show some correction for the effect of flat maps Mercator compared to the earth's actual globe. (I should probably go buy a globe, I checked one once to clarify why aircraft from the UK appear to head North-East initially when travelling to Florida USA!

It's called the "great circle route" FYI. Using a globe is the simplest way to plot a great circle route, but computer software can do it too.

[elheisenberg]

Interestingly enough I posited the exact same thing a few pages back while discussing the technical details of how military radar gets altitude information from planes not sending secondary surveillance radar data! It's chilling to think that the Malaysian military aimed its weapons at their own national airline's plane, but that's the most probable way that they got the altitude data.

Needless to say, it raises serious questions about why the military was tracking this flight as a bogie before any sign of things going wrong!

do u have the nr. of your previous post? just curious

[elheisenberg]

Interestingly enough I posited the exact same thing a few pages back while discussing the technical details of how military radar gets altitude information from planes not sending secondary surveillance radar data! It's chilling to think that the Malaysian military aimed its weapons at their own national airline's plane, but that's the most probable way that they got the altitude data.

Needless to say, it raises serious questions about why the military was tracking this flight as a bogie before any sign of things going wrong!

"Where was the Malaysian air force in all this?" says former RAF pilot and aerospace analyst Andrew Brookes

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26603830

[Speed Daemon]

It might be my message (494) you are referring to. All I was asking was it possible for passengers take in their hand luggage any specialist electronic devices to aid or assist them in taking over the plane or disabling or other means to take control. According to some info given out there were some specialists on board as well as 1 or 3 (depending on who you believe) flight engineers. I realise it might be a long shot but with no other rational reason for losing a plane I suppose all ideas must be considered. Maybe someone with this knowledge could look through the xray machines photos/data (if there kept) to see what people took on board. Even if my theory is way-off-the-mark it might turn up something else that might provide clues for other theories.

Yes, that's it! Forgive me for not finding the post and using your name, but things were progressing rapidly and I was getting tired.

I've worked with many software engineers in the past (mostly in the capacity of "translator" between intelligent and educated people and managers; I'm completely serious here) and have found most of them utterly clueless about the hardware on which they write and compile their programs. I strongly doubt that the software people on board should be suspect unless that have aviation specific backgrounds.

Since the 777 does not have a flight engineer position, the flight engineers would have to have been certified on much older aircraft. Just because they know their way around a 707 doesn't necessarily mean that they can translate that knowledge to the much newer, far more sophisticated 777. OTOH their access to airliners of all types might give one or more of them the chance to study the 777 systems on their own time.

Here in the Us I wouldn't be allowed to carry simple tools like a screwdriver and wire cutters aboard so as to maintain a high fear level among the flying public. But in another nation, and with the right credentials (like a flight engineer rating), someone may have been allowed to bring those tools on board the flight. Knowing what we know now, I would absolutely look for tools like that in stored X-ray images! However I don't hold out great hope that the airport would save all of those images. Maybe they do; let's hope so!

[zed]

when you see a large plane at night it has a number of flashing lights on it , how do you turn these off and what are they all for ? surely even if all lights were off someone would have heard it flying low over land

At least 10 witnesses observed a large low flying aircraft, with lights, flying west which ties in with the timing of MH370 and also it's reported low altitude at that location - 5000 feet.

[Speed Daemon]

do u have the nr. of your previous post? just curious

Look at posts 523, 525, 529, 532 and 551. They all have relevant information regarding the possibility of a military "friendly fire" attack on the plane.

I haven't had time to learn about the latest news, but it seems from what little I've heard that there might be some political motive to assassinate one of the pilots or passengers?

[Allison]

Please read this interesting article from The Times of Israel --
Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370

Also, an article about the families, from The Washington Post -
Vanished Malaysia Airlines flight leaves relatives with anger and phantom phone calls

[elheisenberg]

Please read this interesting article from The Times of Israel --
Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370

Also, an article about the families, from The Washington Post -
Vanished Malaysia Airlines flight leaves relatives with anger and phantom phone calls

this i do not believe, the el al expert, about iran involved!

i am from germany, and apparently the mother of one iranian guy, was waiting for him at frankfurt airport, and contacted authoroties by herself!
and u also can be sure, that german secret service would have a large go at her, if they had any suspicion! and there was absolutely no news about this in the german press!
i highly doubt it

[Allison]

This just in from The Washington Post!
Malaysia U-turns on satellite data evidence; unsure when system went off line

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Malaysian authorities, in the latest of a series of U-turns, reversed themselves Monday on a key detail of what happened in the cockpit of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the minutes before it vanished from civilian radar nine days ago.

But authorities acknowledged Monday that they do not know exactly when that data system went dark, making it harder to pinpoint when the suspected act of hijacking or sabotage was initiated.

Of course, the article states that this information does not really affect what happened… just the timeline of events.

[BillDee36]

I am a complete novice but have been following this thread since it began. I have seen the footage of the pilot and co-pilot passing through security but no further. Is it possible that they did not actually board the aircraft but were "replaced" for hijack purposes? It certainly seems the Malaysian authorities have something to hide!

[Oblivian]

I am a complete novice but have been following this thread since it began. I have seen the footage of the pilot and co-pilot passing through security but no further. Is it possible that they did not actually board the aircraft but were "replaced" for hijack purposes? It certainly seems the Malaysian authorities have something to hide!

Not generally. They won't have been alone. There would be the flight crew following close behind and will have crew itinerary to indicate who was scheduled to be onboard. Not to mention checks at the gate and ground crew check-off