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Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China - Flight MH370

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  • Originally posted by grandbanks View Post
    The black box ..

    The beacon sends out pulses at 37.5 kilohertz (kHz) and can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet (4,267 m). Once the beacon begins "pinging," it pings once per second for 30 days.
    A "ping" signal for use in locating the box under water. It only has a range of 1-2 nautical miles. Therefore if the water is deep, the sub, or ship needs to be almost over-head.
    The signal will travel further above ground, than below.

    [...]

    The ocean area where they are searching 3500 -4500 m deep. The searching ship or sub, needs to be above it to hear it.
    up off the Andaman island 1500 - 3200 metres deep
    Comment I read on Slashdot yesterday about picking up blackbox "pings" from a submarine:
    Sound under water can be ducted through sound channels and convergence zones. Depending on the depth/pressure, the salinity, and the temperature, faint noises can by heard by a hydrophone hundreds of miles away - but NOT detectable on a hydrophone a half-mile away that isn't at the sound channel depth. (Source: I was an airborne acoustic sensor operator for several years in P-3 Orion ASW aircraft, long long ago).

    [...]

    Of course, if the airplane is on the bottom, in the mud, or in an abyssal trench, the sound could be muffled and not audible even a dozen yards away. Since we have essentially no clue where the airplane is (except that we can be pretty sure it isn't in the "black hole" between Don Lemon's ears) the whole search effort is, essentially, a crap shoot.

    It's also important to remember that a modern submarine (not an unmanned rover) has a maximum diving depth of 500 meters (1,650 feet) below which the hull will risk collapsing. That is only a tenth of the maximum depth in the area of the Indian Ocean where the current search operation is carried out. So it is not likely that a submarine would be of any use, at least before a pretty accurate crash site has been located.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mac Attack View Post
      Much earlier, I posted a similar question and noted that there should be (via broad internet surfing) either Chinese, Indian, US, and Russian submarines regularly patrolling that (or not far from) area. My question at the time was not on these submarines picking up the pings, but for them to pick up the acoustics of a plane crashing in that part of the ocean.

      Have had no response yet.....
      Well I guess no one wants to give away the location/position of their submarines. Like in the early days when all the military Radar's of the surrounding countries were silent.

      Comment


      • ^^ The whole thing is, each nation is playing their own politics and shrewd game.

        Malaysia is not transparent and hence not coming out clean. It's hiding a lot. It had also forbided FBI 's help from US and such,..

        US and UK has alloted just one air craft for search, so far !

        Many nations wish that,... their radar / satellite range and capacity / strength / weakness / finding powers and capacity / sharpness of pictures and zoom camera lenc power,.. etc. no one should know. This is not the right time to reveal/expose it, helping a third party country, for nothing.
        If you remember, when US attacked in Pakistan on Bin laden's residence, the failed chopper they had bombed it to the fire by themselves, ( to destroy the technology ) so that, no one should investigate and find their technology by analysing it, to fool radars and satellites,.. ( the way, choppers had got into the Pakistan borders, undetected ! )

        So, here Australia is helping a little bit more, since he have to search close to his home, ( close to its own private sea territory ) hence can afford the gas/power/time and labor.

        China can find the stuff in more detail, and with sharp images, but somehow it does not want to reveal its fullest capacity, to let it to be known to others.

        US and UK are just silently watching. Rest of the nations are just trying to add-list their names in being Social. ( Let the world know, they did something )

        So, it's all deep politics.


        World's worst Air-lines with worst safety records:
        http://travel.ninemsn.com.au/holiday...safety-records
        Last edited by voyager10; 2014-03-24, 07:09.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mac Attack View Post
          Anyone know how one could identify a small section of a broken aircraft? Would each airframe panel of the exterior skin and each internal furnishing (including internal walls) have identifier etched on for a central database to relate this back to a specific airframe?
          No doubt Boeing would have the final call as to whether debris is from a 777. As only one has ever gone into the sea isn't the specific airframe irrelevant?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by airnrail View Post
            No doubt Boeing would have the final call as to whether debris is from a 777. As only one has ever gone into the sea isn't the specific airframe irrelevant?
            They have to be able to positively identify the debris to a B777 and to MH370. If they find a floating passenger seat, how would they know if it is from MH370 or not? There have been other airplanes lost at sea (across many years and aircraft types).

            Of course Boeing would have the final call. My question is on how they would make this call.

            Comment


            • Looking ahead, what changes, if any, can we expect to see in onboard equipment and procedures? I would imagine that both governments and Insurance companies are in a position to twist the arms of airlines that prefer to do nothing?

              Comment


              • It must have turned to the right as suggested on FLR24 incidentally. It must have been a decompression and the plane has gone down over Indonesia and down the Eastern coast of Australia ran out of fuel and ditched.

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                • Originally posted by anterian View Post
                  Looking ahead, what changes, if any, can we expect to see in onboard equipment and procedures? I would imagine that both governments and Insurance companies are in a position to twist the arms of airlines that prefer to do nothing?
                  Doing something expensive that causes a lot of down time might be something the airlines won't like - but a lot of that could be due to the complexity of whatever is mandated.

                  They could mandate something simple like the use of battery powered GPS tracker that pings a satellite every 5 to 10 minutes - that might be simple and affordable. Or what they are trying to do is specify something that reports much of the information captured by both black boxes and upload it periodically (very complex, bandwidth heavy, expensive - will be aircraft model specific and will be complex to get approval, then most of the data won't be looked at since most flights are un-eventful.

                  My feeling would be to go with something simple so you know the approximate location of the aircraft - cut the search time, the black poxes can always be recovered later for analysis.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by peterhr View Post
                    Doing something expensive that causes a lot of down time might be something the airlines won't like - but a lot of that could be due to the complexity of whatever is mandated.
                    As you suggest, "They could mandate something simple like the use of battery powered GPS tracker that pings a satellite every 5 to 10 minutes ", satisfies the KISS principle, but I would suggest away from the pilot's control, just in case he is the source of the problem.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by anterian View Post
                      Looking ahead, what changes, if any, can we expect to see in onboard equipment and procedures? I would imagine that both governments and Insurance companies are in a position to twist the arms of airlines that prefer to do nothing?
                      Can you imagine what the equipment and manpower costs will be of this total investigation? Each country should now help pay for the costs to put in new equipment and new systems to locate each and every aircraft no matter what happens....they can't depend on military radar, or some lady looking out the window of a plane, or some fisherman to do so...
                      Last edited by mcjensen; 2014-03-24, 12:04.

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                      • Looks like it has been found...Malaysia even issued a statement and informed the passengers:

                        "We deeply regret that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board have survived..we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean."

                        Comment


                        • Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 Ended in the Indian Ocean - Aircraft 9M-MRO

                          MH370 Tomnod discussion
                          http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...nod-discussion

                          Malaysia PM cites new data analysis
                          Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was lost in the remote southern Indian Ocean far from any possible landing sites, the PM announces.

                          British investigators have concluded that missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370's last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean west of Perth, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said.
                          http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/...ane/index.html
                          http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=23033246

                          On Mar 24th 2014 Malaysia's Prime Minster has called for an unscheduled press conference at 10pm local time (14:00Z). Families of occupants of the aircraft in Beijing have been called in to a short term meeting, and there are reports the families of occupants have been booked onto charter flights to Australia. Relatives in Kuala Lumpur have commenced a meeting at 21:30L.

                          In the press conference on Mar 24th 2014 Malaysia's Prime Minister said, that the experts of the AAIB briefed the prime minister stating that the satellite experts have done further computations on the satellite data using methods never used before. Based on the new computations the AAIB have concluded MH-370 flew the southern corridor with its final position west of Perth, Australia at a remote area of the Indian Ocean with no landing sites. "It is with deep sadness and regret, I must inform you, that according to this new data flight MH-370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean", the Prime Minister stated.
                          http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b

                          Updates on these Tagboards for MAS370
                          https://tagboard.com/MAS370 & https://tagboard.com/MH370 & https://tagboard.com/MAS & https://tagboard.com/MASalert

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysi...nes_Flight_370

                          9M-MRO
                          C/n / msn: 28420/404
                          Total airframe hrs: 53465
                          Cycles: 7525
                          http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=20140308-0

                          Flightradar24 Pinned Tracking Flight for MAS370 / 9M-MRO
                          http://www.flightradar24.com/data/pinned/

                          Flightradar24.com
                          BREAKING NEWS: Malaysian Prime Minister just announced "It is with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you, #MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean"
                          R.I.P to everyone who was on board.
                          https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=686145134758246
                          Last edited by SoCalBrian; 2014-03-24, 18:30.
                          Brian

                          www.RadarSpotters.eu
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                          • They found nothing. And they tell the world the plane crashed and every single passenger is dead. How could they do that? Maybe the analys is wrong? Really strange (to me)...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Toranto View Post
                              They found nothing. And they tell the world the plane crashed and every single passenger is dead. How could they do that? Maybe the analys is wrong? Really strange (to me)...
                              I agree honestly it doesn't add up.

                              & those organisations are criminals to make families go through all this, god knows whats really behind all of this. it's so heartbreaking
                              Last edited by Angie33; 2014-03-24, 14:41.

                              Comment


                              • Here's Najib's statement in full:

                                This evening I was briefed by representatives from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB). They informed me that Inmarsat, the UK company that provided the satellite data which indicated the northern and southern corridors, has been performing further calculations on the data. Using a type of analysis never before used in an investigation of this sort, they have been able to shed more light on MH370’s flight path.

                                Based on their new analysis, Inmarsat and the AAIB have concluded that MH370 flew along the southern corridor, and that its last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean, west of Perth.

                                This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites. It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean.

                                We will be holding a press conference tomorrow with further details. In the meantime, we wanted to inform you of this new development at the earliest opportunity. We share this information out of a commitment to openness and respect for the families, two principles which have guided this investigation.

                                Malaysia Airlines have already spoken to the families of the passengers and crew to inform them of this development. For them, the past few weeks have been heartbreaking; I know this news must be harder still. I urge the media to respect their privacy, and to allow them the space they need at this difficult time.

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