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Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China - Flight MH370

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Sea Petal View Post
    Do you have a system for reporting a sudden loss of data? I read that because there are not enough reporting stations this gets challenging. But a simple email system to someone in charge of that plane... at the airline or airport could save valuable time and even lives. Even if they are not a client as long as they are willing to receive and check on it just in case. It would also be an excellent lead generating service for sales. It has been awhile since I worked in the airline software industry but I thought they had this technology but maybe only airlines with lots of money.

    15 years ago we were working on using RF with our software to send data for the Maintenance anywhere the airline needed it.
    There are many reasons FR24 could stop receiving any data for an aircraft in flight - the simplest being the receiver of the data going down or the aircraft flying out of range of all receivers. The latter happens thousands of times a day as planes head out on trans-oceanic flights, etc.

    Originally posted by anonymous View Post
    Based on the flight tracker of MH370, it's kind of odd that the airplane to the southeast goes 4-5x faster than a regular aircraft moving up northeast. It's either there is something wrong with the tracking system or that is the speed of a missle. Also there are coordinates that are shown as flight MH370 went down to 0 altitude. They should use those coordinates to go straight there and search the radius of the area. If they don't find one thing, that seems very very sketchy.
    I somewhat doubt that a missile would be fitted with an ADS-B rig broadcasting its position and speed ... so aircraft,ground, everyone winin 400+km could see it ... I think I'll put that suggestion down to being a conspiracy story.
    Last edited by peterhr; 2014-03-09, 17:05.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Mike View Post
      Not sure if possible, but this is for sure something we will discuss tomorrow at the office. We are already saving some data on some receivers for error checking, but I'm not sure about data volumes and limits.
      I thought you said some time ago that a feeder passes 600Mb of non MLAT data a month, that's about 20Mb a day - put a switch in the feeder to enable this and to specify the storage location (so on a Pi we could opt to store it on a USB memory stick maybe) and the duration to store ... suggest 1 hour files.
      Last edited by peterhr; 2014-03-09, 17:19.

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      • #78
        Unless they've started putting transponders on missiles, I think you're safe to say it's a plane - heck, not even all planes will show on the maps. There's nothing visible in the area at the time it disappears - plane didn't go to 0 altitude but rather returned a missing altitude reading (note vertical speed also 0).

        The whole incident is farcical - searching in wrong area first 11 hrs, reported landings, taking 40+ hrs to assume catastrophic failure when no distress signals were sent amongst a lot of useless speculation. Yeah, planes do disappear off radar frequently, but if they don't reappear somewhere before fuel would have run out, there's rarely a positive outcome. Should have Mike in charge rather than the current incompetents leading investigation - I mean, it shouldn't be too difficult to at least find the area to search and the plane or significant debris.

        I travelled through KLIA on MAS twice in the past month including this week departing after midnight like MH370 - the security seemed more relaxed than during the day. Hope it's not terrorism, but that's what I've been assuming since it started & it gets more likely all the time

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        • #79
          Originally posted by SteveK View Post
          Unless they've started putting transponders on missiles, I think you're safe to say it's a plane - heck, not even all planes will show on the maps. There's nothing visible in the area at the time it disappears - plane didn't go to 0 altitude but rather returned a missing altitude reading (note vertical speed also 0).

          The whole incident is farcical - searching in wrong area first 11 hrs, reported landings, taking 40+ hrs to assume catastrophic failure when no distress signals were sent amongst a lot of useless speculation. Yeah, planes do disappear off radar frequently, but if they don't reappear somewhere before fuel would have run out, there's rarely a positive outcome. Should have Mike in charge rather than the current incompetents leading investigation - I mean, it shouldn't be too difficult to at least find the area to search and the plane or significant debris.

          I travelled through KLIA on MAS twice in the past month including this week departing after midnight like MH370 - the security seemed more relaxed than during the day. Hope it's not terrorism, but that's what I've been assuming since it started & it gets more likely all the time
          Everyone is frustrated and it is very sad that this has happened. I am sure the authorities are doing everything possible to find the aircraft. I agree it was disturbing to hear that after more than 24hours the authorities said "it might have turned around".. but...



          Why is it so difficult to locate lost planes?


          Today’s airliners have sturdy emergency-locator devices designed to transmit signals in the event of a crash, as do so-called “black boxes” that contain digital flight data and cockpit recordings. But without knowing the trajectory of a plane as it went down–or fully understanding wind and wave conditions if it crashed into water–searchers sometimes can end up crisscrossing huge areas looking for relatively small pieces of wreckage. Particularly deep water or rugged terrain can seriously hinder investigations.

          http://blogs.wsj.com/five-things/201...nd-air-safety/
          Last edited by jUsT2eXy; 2014-03-09, 17:41.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by jUsT2eXy View Post
            Why is it so difficult to locate lost planes?


            Today’s airliners have sturdy emergency-locator devices designed to transmit signals in the event of a crash, as do so-called “black boxes” that contain digital flight data and cockpit recordings. But without knowing the trajectory of a plane as it went down–or fully understanding wind and wave conditions if it crashed into water–searchers sometimes can end up crisscrossing huge areas looking for relatively small pieces of wreckage. Particularly deep water or rugged terrain can seriously hinder investigations.

            http://blogs.wsj.com/five-things/201...nd-air-safety/
            I agree the actual plane or black boxes could be difficult to find like AF447, but evidence of some debris should be quick enough once in the right vague area as a lot floats & there's plenty of air traffic & fishing vessels that would be passing normally which would leave smaller areas to search with dedicated services.

            Strange also with so many satellites they can't have people at home who want to help with the search by looking at the images

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            • #81
              Hey! Yeah totally agree. Intelligence agencies can spy on us sitting on a park bench so why can't these satellites look to track debris. Surely there is SONAR/Radar that can pick up large (especially when there is a lot in an area together) debris and point rescuers to the right area..

              Fishing vessels have fantastic systems to track large schools of fish underwater..surely military vessels have sophisticated equipment to track huge floating debris?

              Lets wait to hear in the next few hours @ dawn when the authorities can resume searching

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              • #82
                This did not happen in the bathtub. There is the difference between: find the remains, and confirm that they belong to the aircraft. You all got the reports that something is found, but no one wants to go public before they get confirmation.
                For official support use Contact Form

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by jUsT2eXy View Post
                  Hey! Yeah totally agree. Intelligence agencies can spy on us sitting on a park bench so why can't these satellites look to track debris. Surely there is SONAR/Radar that can pick up large (especially when there is a lot in an area together) debris and point rescuers to the right area..

                  Fishing vessels have fantastic systems to track large schools of fish underwater..surely military vessels have sophisticated equipment to track huge floating debris?

                  Lets wait to hear in the next few hours @ dawn when the authorities can resume searching
                  I think you are asking too much, I work with underwater acoustic technology, you cannot locate things at great distances as the water atennuates the signals after quite a short distance, sonar would only be good out to a distance of 2-3 kilometers, that is a small pinprick in a big ocean, (low frequency audio will travel much further but cannot give any useful information). Radar could only detect metalic objects sticking clear of the waves by several feet.
                  Even the pinger on the black box can only be picked up if you are within 2 kilometers of it, that includes the depth of water, so if the sea is deep at that point you may need to be almost directly above it to pick it up.
                  FR24 F-EGLF1, Blitzortung station 878, OGN Aldersht2, PilotAware PWAldersht, PlanePlotter M7.

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                  • #84
                    Hi Guys...!

                    I just read news article and try to send mail to official department but it was in Malaysian language and also there was no proper e mail addresses so am trying to publish this message here and want to suggest that as per my reading on star online newspaper that Italian national whose passport was stolen that passport actually he deposited to car rental firm in Thailand and when he return car that firm simply told him that his passport miss placed....here am pasting original news clip ......." Maraldi reported his passport missing on August 1, 2013 when he deposited it with a rental car agency and was told it had gone missing when he came to return his vehicle, according to The Washington Post."

                    after reading this I have question in mind that is it not possible that car rental firm lied to him or they sell out that passport who went on board MH 370? I think if there will be more investigation.... also while I was watching news online that Italian guy was present himself to Thai police and police took it lightly... that's all....why they didn't inquire deeply and investigate further? why this officials in Malaysia and Thailand and other are wasting time or not approaching other means to solve the issue? they can investigate Italian person and follow it and try to find master mind of stolen passport issue and on basis of that they can approach whom they provide passport and identify them....

                    Please guys and specially Mike...I want opinion of all of you....Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by F-EGLF1 View Post
                      I think you are asking too much, I work with underwater acoustic technology, you cannot locate things at great distances as the water atennuates the signals after quite a short distance, sonar would only be good out to a distance of 2-3 kilometers, that is a small pinprick in a big ocean, (low frequency audio will travel much further but cannot give any useful information). Radar could only detect metalic objects sticking clear of the waves by several feet.
                      Even the pinger on the black box can only be picked up if you are within 2 kilometers of it, that includes the depth of water, so if the sea is deep at that point you may need to be almost directly above it to pick it up.
                      Fairplay. Thanks for the information.

                      When I have watched documentaries... warships can see small fishing vessels hundreds of miles out (For example documentaries on war ships near Somalia fighting piracy spot small fishing vessels from miles away)... aircraft (reconnaissance) can spot objects (tiny dots on radar) from great distances > Though I get that these are above water so the point is redundant if the aircraft has unfortunately broke innto pieces and is submerged.

                      The BBC state "Flight recorders, or "black boxes" as they are often known, emit ultrasonic signals that can be detected underwater. Under good conditions, the signals can be detected from several hundred miles away."

                      That is pretty awesome but I guess 'clear conditions' has to mean perfect to achieve that kind of distance.
                      Last edited by jUsT2eXy; 2014-03-09, 18:37.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by jUsT2eXy View Post
                        Fairplay. Thanks for the information.


                        The BBC state "Flight recorders, or "black boxes" as they are often known, emit ultrasonic signals that can be detected underwater. Under good conditions, the signals can be detected from several hundred miles away."

                        That is pretty awesome but I guess 'clear conditions' has to mean perfect to achieve that kind of distance.
                        Unfortunately the good old beeb has got things muddled up again, the flight recorders carry 2 locators, an underwater 'pinger' (ultrasonic) and an rf locator, the rf locator could feasible be detected hundreds of miles away (on land only, it cannot work underwater), however ultrasonic signals from the 'pinger' can not travel great distances underwater
                        The company I work for have provided equipment for locating flight recorders in similar situations (and may well do so for this one), but you need to know where to look first as the range is so short. ( also you are limited by the battery in the flight recorders, from memory I think it is supposed to work for 30 days provided they were properly maintained)
                        FR24 F-EGLF1, Blitzortung station 878, OGN Aldersht2, PilotAware PWAldersht, PlanePlotter M7.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by bhavlobhuro View Post
                          Hi Guys...!

                          I just read news article and try to send mail to official department but it was in Malaysian language and also there was no proper e mail addresses so am trying to publish this message here and want to suggest that as per my reading on star online newspaper that Italian national whose passport was stolen that passport actually he deposited to car rental firm in Thailand and when he return car that firm simply told him that his passport miss placed....here am pasting original news clip ......." Maraldi reported his passport missing on August 1, 2013 when he deposited it with a rental car agency and was told it had gone missing when he came to return his vehicle, according to The Washington Post."

                          after reading this I have question in mind that is it not possible that car rental firm lied to him or they sell out that passport who went on board MH 370? I think if there will be more investigation.... also while I was watching news online that Italian guy was present himself to Thai police and police took it lightly... that's all....why they didn't inquire deeply and investigate further? why this officials in Malaysia and Thailand and other are wasting time or not approaching other means to solve the issue? they can investigate Italian person and follow it and try to find master mind of stolen passport issue and on basis of that they can approach whom they provide passport and identify them....

                          Please guys and specially Mike...I want opinion of all of you....Thanks
                          Yeah, read that too, both the Italian & Austrian passport went missing in Thailand - leaving passport as deposit for vehicles is quite common amongst tourists there & I know I certainly did it myself on a couple of occasions. I am surprised he didn't get it back, but there's such a big black market passport / ID market over there (you can find them on the streets of Bankok fairly openly) that I doubt you'd be able to track it. Frankly, Thailand don't care about the issue & you get in more serious trouble for insulting the king.

                          I think it more likely that someone stole it from the rental place rather than them selling it on directly

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by seahorse View Post
                            I was more thinking in the direction of interruption off power supply, not the production of electrical power.
                            I'm just saying, suppose they had a short circuit then all the batteries and RAT want help them, I wonder if they even would be able to steer the plane?
                            Is the 777 not a fly by wire? Just a question, planes equipped with fly by wire, do they have some mechanical backup to steer?
                            Yes it is fly-by-wire but it is also highly unlikely for a 777 to lose all electrical power since it designed with multiple redundant systems. Both Engines generate power and both engines also have backup generators should one generator fail in flight. If both engines should fail the 777 crew will not only deploy the RAT they will bring the APU on-line. The APU "Auxiliary Power Unit" is a electrical generator powered by a turbine engine, that is located in the tail of the Aircraft, and provides electrical, hydraulics and pneumatics in the event of a lose of power from the engines. The RAT "Ram Air Turbine" which simply drops below the aircraft, is a wind driven turbine, it also provides electrical, hydraulics and pneumatics allowing for full control of the Aircraft.

                            If you would like to know more about the B777 Electrical systems then I have the manual for you here: http://ads-b.ca/777/B777-Electrical.pdf
                            www.ADS-B.ca

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                            • #89
                              Remember flight TWA-800 the 747 that had the exploding center fuel tank? That got me wondering if the 777-200 had any similar known issues. Seems Boeing and the FAA had concerns that a MOV could send electrical current into the fuel tank resulting in an exposition and total loss of the Aircraft. This is scary stuff to read as there was a known possible problem, a defective MOV to look out for, that could lead to an explosion of the center fuel tank. This might now very well be that cause of this accident.

                              http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013...2013-05199.htm

                              Federal Aviation Administration

                              14 CFR Part 39

                              [Docket No. FAA-2008-0847; Directorate Identifier 2008-NM-056-AD;
                              Amendment 39-17375; AD 2013-05-03]
                              RIN 2120-AA64


                              Airworthiness Directives; The Boeing Company Airplanes

                              AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT.

                              ACTION: Final rule.

                              -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                              SUMMARY: We are adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for certain
                              The Boeing Company Model 777-200, -200LR, -300, and -300ER series
                              airplanes. This AD was prompted by fuel system reviews conducted by the
                              manufacturer. This AD requires doing an inspection to identify the part
                              number of the motor-operated valve (MOV) actuators of the main and
                              center fuel tanks; replacing certain MOV actuators with new MOV
                              actuators; and measuring the electrical resistance of the bond from the
                              adapter plate to the airplane structure, and doing corrective actions
                              if necessary. We are issuing this AD to prevent electrical current from
                              flowing through an MOV actuator into a fuel tank, which could create a
                              potential ignition source inside the fuel tank. This condition, in
                              combination with flammable fuel vapors, could result in a fuel tank
                              explosion and consequent loss of the airplane.
                              Last edited by 1090 MHz; 2014-03-10, 00:23.
                              www.ADS-B.ca

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by 1090 MHz View Post
                                Remember flight TWA-800 the 747 that had the exploding center fuel tank? That got me wondering if the 777-200 had any similar known issues. Seems Boeing and the FAA had concerns that a MOV could send electrical current into the fuel tank resulting in an exposition and total loss of the Aircraft. This is scary stuff to read as there was a known possible problem, a defective MOV to look out for, that could lead to an explosion of the center fuel tank. This might now very well be that cause of this accident.
                                They implemented certain changes to ensure an incident like the TWA-800 would never happen again. And remember MH370 departed at night, it wasn't sitting out on a hot runway in the middle of the day like TWA800. But it does seem that there was a catastrophic breakup of the flight, so very rare though, it's hard to believe it could be that. I would have thought if it had crashed into the sea in one piece there would be some indication either radio coms, radar evidence etc etc

                                The two fake passports are a huge red flag. You would have thought someone traveling on a fake passport would not want to travel with someone else who had fake documents, one of them gets busted, his traveling partner would immediately become a suspect. You are increasing your chances of getting caught. And it was 2 guys, not a couple.
                                Last edited by zed; 2014-03-10, 01:44.

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