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Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China - Flight MH370

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  • Originally posted by bhavlobhuro View Post
    Can anybody explain... why black box save all the important data within it and after any incident like this we have to wait until we can search and explore it... now since technology is so advance then why black box can not pass all the data in it's ground facility in real time?and if any incident happen authority has to check its data server only....why this technology still they don't adopt?
    If I understand correctly, you're asking why the data that goes into the "black box" isn't transmitted to the ground before a crash happens. The answer is simple: we can't know that a plane will crash until it does. There is not enough radio bandwidth or satellites or ground facilities to record every bit of pertinent data from every airplane in flight.

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    • Originally posted by professorm View Post
      I was watching the playback for the 48 hours following the departure of MH370, and for some reason from 02:00-03:00 on 3-9-14 just shows the period from 01:00-02:00. I've tried MANY times, from multiple computers. This could correspond to approximately the very last hour MH370 could have been flying. Does anybody know anything about this? Can anyone else watch that hour?
      I seem to watch this hour fine, picked out a few random aircraft to keep an eye on to be sure of this. Only thing "interesting" was these plane "disappearing" over the ocean, which I am sure is nothing more exciting than being too far away to send a signal.

      Besides, the signal first fell off the flightradar map on 07/03 at 17.20 which would make the potential last few hours of the flight be up to around 1am on the 8th.

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      • Originally posted by Exadios View Post
        With regard to transponders of the 'Mode S' type (i.e. all transponders on airline craft):

        Each air frame is assign a 24 bit ICAO code that stays with the frame for the life of the craft. Every Mode S and ADS-B packet includes this code which uniquely identifies to (purported) originating frame. On the ground databases may be used to map this ICAO code to a current civil registration. This code is set into the transponder during manufacture or certain maintenance procedures. It is not accessible to the flight crew.

        In certain Mode S and ADS-B packets their is a 'Aircraft ID' field. This can be set by the flight crew. The value of this field is usually set to the flight code (e.g. MS318) or the civil registration otherwise. If this is changed in flight it might cause some real time confusion but cannot cause problems for any post event analysis which will go back to the ICAO code.
        If a hijacker turns off the transponder, and later before entering the air space of another country he enters a fake Aircraft ID and turns on the transponder, is it likely that air traffic control in real-time will know something is wrong? Or is there a chance the hijacker will be allowed to pass through their airspace, for example pretending to be a freight plane not using this route regularly?

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        • Latest update from Aviation Herald.

          "On Mar 16th 2014 Malaysia's Minister of Transport said, that the search has become much more difficult now including 25 instead of so far 14 countries including diplomatic efforts. Areas of land in 11 countries are being searched. Satellite data, primary and secondary radar data as well as search aircraft and ships are being requested. The aircraft took off with the fuel planned according to flight plan, there was no additional fuel loaded. The investigation refocussed on crew, all passengers as well as all ground personnel handling the aircraft. The crew homes have been searched, the captain's flight simulator equipment was dismantled and re-assembled at police premises for further investigation. The crew members had not requested to fly together. The team of Inmarsat have arrived in Malaysia supporting the investigation. Priority is still on the search and rescue operation. There have been no attempts to contact Malaysia, the airline or any other party in order to seek ransom or other compensation in exchange for occupants or the aircraft. There was no hazardous cargo on board, the cargo has been checked according to standard operating procedures. The satellite signals could also have been sent while the aircraft was on the ground as long as there was electrical power available."

          http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0
          AMS Daily Fight Information: http://schiphol.dutchplanespotters.nl/

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          • Originally posted by seahorse View Post
            So what about GLEX? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raytheon_Sentinel

            So this surveillance airplane circling above "Al Qaeda territory" is sending out messages like
            Now I'm here, no, now I'm here, no no I'm here now Shoot me, oops I'm here now shoot me SHOOT me
            I just can't believe that a military airplane would use ads-b and continuously send out it's own position.
            The more I read about all this, the more I'm baffled
            We live in huge secured world with even huger security loopholes...
            Well, the Afghani airspace is quite busy at times and as such requires ATC coordination. Besides military aircraft operating at lower altitudes you have a lot of commercial airliners up above, following the main flight paths between South East Asia and Europe (e.g. N644 which passes straight over Ghazni).

            Now, if you look at the GLEX (Sentinel) track history you'll notice that it doesn't enable its transponder until reaching operating altitude, and disables it before landing. A safety precaution to avoid being targeted by hostile SAMs (surface-to-air missiles). As FR24 shows, the Sentinel cruises at FL420, well above commercial airliners and quite out of range from any Taliban-controlled missile platform (e.g. MANPADS), which commonly have a flight ceiling of some 15k feet (4.5 km).

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            • Hi everyone,
              I wonder how come it is still not determined for sure whom the last phrase "allright good bye" belongs? Was it not recorder? What do you think?

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              • A question - is it possible for a passenger (or passengers) to use an electrical device to take over the aircraft or to assist them disabling the aircraft ACARS, transponder, or computers etc? Remember there were at least 20 persons on board from an electronic specialist company.

                Another question - when you pass through airport security and your hand luggage is x-rayd are the images recorded and possibly kept (if yes for how long?). If so might be worth going through this data. I appreciate if covers a lot flights and not just MH370 but might be helpful.

                Any comments

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                • Originally posted by julian View Post
                  I wonder how come it is still not determined for sure whom the last phrase "allright good bye" belongs? Was it not recorder?
                  Having a voice on tape is a far cry from authenticating that voice belonging to a certain person.

                  We know that Captain Shah posted web videos, so there are samples of his voice. However it's not clear if there are any good voice samples of the first officer. Ditto for the cabin crew and passengers.

                  Even if someone attempted to compare "voice prints" to the radio transmission, the fidelity of the recording isn't likely to be adequate enough to produce conclusive results. The last transmission was made at the limit of the range of Malaysia's air traffic control system, and amplitude modulated signals get covered up with noise as distance increases.

                  Perhaps the US has some secret technology that might clean it up enough to get something, but that will take time and the cooperation of the Malaysian government. So far there's no word of what the NTSB inspectors sent by the US are being granted access to, if anything.

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                  • Originally posted by misha View Post
                    A question - is it possible for a passenger (or passengers) to use an electrical device to take over the aircraft or to assist them disabling the aircraft ACARS, transponder, or computers etc? Remember there were at least 20 persons on board from an electronic specialist company.

                    Any comments
                    The only way to take over a plane is to do it from the cockpit, and there were reports that the first officer use to invite teenage girls into the cockpit, and if that was the case then anyone could have got in.
                    www.ADS-B.ca

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                    • Looks like another development - Malaysia is asking for permission to investigate countries that are not under government power - as its a possibility that its gone somewhere Taliban has power over such as near the afghan boarder between Pakistan and Afghanistan, but that still brings the whole radar question why was no one questioning the flight going over all these countries?

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                      • Originally posted by Mattckd View Post
                        I have heard about this missing plane for some time and have a question regarding TCAS, if TCAS was left on it could aid the hijackers in ya know not hitting other planes, but if other planes were in its path wouldn't those planes TCAS log that a MH370 is in proximity or would it just log as an unknown plane? just wondering cos if thats a possibility then it could be used to get a good idea of where the plane was heading and possibly where it is. i fly on fsx occasionly not on a regular basis but occasionally i have little knowledge regarding TCAS but if any off you guys have any info on this subject i would be happy to hear.
                        With MH370 transponder being off then no other aircraft TCAS would even know they are near. Also MH370 TCAS can't interrogate any other aircraft without the use of its transponder. So transponder off will disable TCAS all together.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic...oidance_system
                        www.ADS-B.ca

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kiwichris83 View Post
                          Looks like another development - Malaysia is asking for permission to investigate countries that are not under government power - as its a possibility that its gone somewhere Taliban has power over such as near the afghan boarder between Pakistan and Afghanistan, but that still brings the whole radar question why was no one questioning the flight going over all these countries?
                          Or if they even saw it! If it flew over their territory and they didn't, it points to serious limitations in terms of their defence. I can imagine why some states might not want to co-operate with their near neighbours by revealing radar limitations.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by misha View Post
                            A question - is it possible for a passenger (or passengers) to use an electrical device to take over the aircraft or to assist them disabling the aircraft ACARS, transponder, or computers etc?
                            If you're referring to the German man who "created an app" that some believe can take control of an aircraft, his app only works in the virtual world of online gaming. Even he admits that it's a simulation. It cannot seize control away from the flight crew even on fly-by-wire aircraft. And the 777 is not fly-by-wire, so it's even more impossible.

                            It is possible that someone on board the flight who is an aircraft service technician (or knows one) could carry on service equipment (most likely a laptop) that could interface with the plane's internal computer network, and with the right passwords (the 777 uses the UNIX operating system) log in and change settings. This would require the cooperation (voluntary or coerced) of the flight crew of course. Nobody could take control of the plane while sitting back in the passenger compartment.


                            Another question - when you pass through airport security and your hand luggage is x-rayd are the images recorded and possibly kept (if yes for how long?).
                            First of all, not all X-ray machines use digital processing. For the ones that do, it's not at all clear if they even have the capability of storing what's displayed on the screen as digital images. Even if they did there's no way to correlate the X-ray images with a particular passenger or flight. Right now none of that would help find the plane, which is the top priority.

                            Is there something in particular that you think they should be looking for?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kiwichris83 View Post
                              Looks like another development - Malaysia is asking for permission to investigate countries that are not under government power - as its a possibility that its gone somewhere Taliban has power over such as near the afghan boarder between Pakistan and Afghanistan, but that still brings the whole radar question why was no one questioning the flight going over all these countries?
                              I wouldn't be so quick to jump from "other countries" to "Taliban". The fact is that the Malaysia government now realizes that it needs help from all neighboring countries to help solve this riddle. Note that Vietnam has been searching from the beginning, and that Malaysia asked India to search several days ago. This is an "all hands on deck" situation.

                              As for "the whole radar question", I strongly doubt that nobody was watching the RADAR in the entire region during the flight. It's far more likely that no other nations are reporting anything because there's nothing to report.

                              I'll bet that every aviation authority within range of the missing flight is going over their RADAR tapes right now, looking to see if they can find any trace of the missing plane. But after the way that the governments of Malaysia and China have mishandled publicity of this incident, I'd also bet that they're not going to say anything unless and until they're absolutely certain that it's meaningful. It's entirely possible that the missing plane sneaked into another nation's airspace unnoticed by acting like a GA plane, flying slow and low. And perhaps there's a tape somewhere showing an abnormally large primary return for a GA plane. Just don't expect anyone to come forward without first double and triple checking it first.

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                              • Originally posted by Flybywire View Post
                                Or if they even saw it! If it flew over their territory and they didn't, it points to serious limitations in terms of their defence. I can imagine why some states might not want to co-operate with their near neighbours by revealing radar limitations.
                                Great point!!! I don't know about the others, but I know that India and Pakistan have had their own "cold war" going on for decades. It would be mighty hard for India to admit that they allowed something as large as a 777 to penetrate their airspace!

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