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Thread: We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat

  1. #1
    Administrator Mike's Avatar
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    We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat

    We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more data apart from the regular position/altitude data.
    These are the decoded ModeS (Downlink Format 20) frames which contain replies to interrogating radar requests (Upling Format 20).

    09:30:48Z.651 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:48Z.936 T,3c6618,43.115341,5.671181,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:49Z.496 T,3c6618,43.116028,5.671692,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:50Z.076 T,3c6618,43.117381,5.673065,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:50Z.111 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:50Z.553 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:50Z.619 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:50Z.626 T,3c6618,43.118408,5.673736,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:51Z.127 T,3c6618,43.119095,5.674247,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:51Z.636 T,3c6618,43.120453,5.675092,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:52Z.386 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:52Z.567 T,3c6618,43.122208,5.676482,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:53Z.036 T,3c6618,43.122894,5.676993,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:53Z.546 T,3c6618,43.124271,5.678166,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:54Z.083 MCP/FMC ALT: 13008 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:54Z.096 T,3c6618,43.125295,5.678689,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:54Z.676 T,3c6618,43.125961,5.679421,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:55Z.156 T,3c6618,43.127157,5.680259,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:55Z.397 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:55Z.453 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:55Z.636 T,3c6618,43.128367,5.681109,38025,GWI18G
    09:30:56Z.186 T,3c6618,43.129211,5.681656,38025,GWI18G
    09:30:56Z.707 T,3c6618,43.129898,5.682167,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:57Z.267 T,3c6618,43.131626,5.683201,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:57Z.312 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:57Z.836 T,3c6618,43.132507,5.684020,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:58Z.050 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:30:58Z.296 T,3c6618,43.133011,5.684403,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:58Z.767 T,3c6618,43.134559,5.685425,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:59Z.216 T,3c6618,43.135397,5.685948,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:59Z.746 T,3c6618,43.136261,5.686575,38000,GWI18G
    09:30:59Z.988 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:00Z.146 T,3c6618,43.137451,5.687149,38000,GWI18G
    09:31:00Z.165 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:00Z.676 T,3c6618,43.137817,5.687660,38000,GWI18G
    09:31:01Z.676 T,3c6618,43.139866,5.689022,38000,GWI18G
    09:31:02Z.027 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:02Z.238 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:02Z.496 T,3c6618,43.141402,5.690199,38000,GWI18G
    09:31:03Z.030 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:03Z.456 T,3c6618,43.143494,5.691429,38000,GWI18G
    09:31:04Z.376 T,3c6618,43.145731,5.692945,37975,GWI18G
    09:31:04Z.943 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:05Z.346 T,3c6618,43.147430,5.693984,37975,GWI18G
    09:31:05Z.558 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:05Z.993 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:06Z.466 T,3c6618,43.149828,5.695365,37975,GWI18G
    09:31:07Z.164 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:07Z.346 T,3c6618,43.151367,5.696539,37950,GWI18G
    09:31:08Z.256 T,3c6618,43.153427,5.697752,37950,GWI18G
    09:31:08Z.776 T,3c6618,43.154111,5.698308,37925,GWI18G
    09:31:09Z.276 T,3c6618,43.154995,5.698962,37925,GWI18G
    09:31:09Z.712 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:09Z.960 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:10Z.326 T,3c6618,43.157364,5.700307,37925,GWI18G
    09:31:11Z.312 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:11Z.467 T,3c6618,43.159607,5.701713,37900,GWI18G
    09:31:11Z.876 T,3c6618,43.160660,5.702415,37900,GWI18G
    09:31:12Z.102 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:12Z.386 T,3c6618,43.161512,5.702885,37875,GWI18G
    09:31:12Z.846 T,3c6618,43.162211,5.703408,37875,GWI18G
    09:31:13Z.316 T,3c6618,43.163049,5.704128,37875,GWI18G
    09:31:13Z.896 T,3c6618,43.164597,5.704970,37875,GWI18G
    09:31:14Z.401 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:14Z.493 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:15Z.536 T,3c6618,43.168030,5.707201,37825,GWI18G
    09:31:16Z.416 T,3c6618,43.169380,5.707921,37825,GWI18G
    09:31:17Z.028 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:17Z.266 T,3c6618,43.171288,5.709294,37800,GWI18G
    09:31:18Z.196 T,3c6618,43.173019,5.710144,37775,GWI18G
    09:31:19Z.166 T,3c6618,43.175385,5.711648,37750,GWI18G
    09:31:19Z.262 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:31:20Z.176 T,3c6618,43.177277,5.712891,37725,GWI18G
    09:31:21Z.216 T,3c6618,43.179202,5.714068,37700,GWI18G

    Between 09:30:52 and 09:30:55 we can see that the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet to 100 feet and 9 seconds later the aircraft started to descend, probably with the "open descent" autopilot setting.
    The reason why the selected altitude is 96ft is that least significant bit for altitude setting equals 16 ft, and we suspect that you can’t set autopilot to 0000 altitude, so the minimum would be 100ft down rounded to 96ft in binary representation in BDS40h register.
    Any comments or thoughts about this?

    Playback: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/fl...u9525/#5d42675

    This data has also been handled over to BEA 2 days ago.

  2. #2
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    Do you have a link to any resources that gives info on how Autopilot setting can be derived from transponder data? *there is some discussion on another forum whether this is actually possible.? Thanks for the post btw

  3. #3
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    Will you someday diplay the selected flight level on the "web radar" as you already have it in your database?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dancake View Post
    Do you have a link to any resources that gives info on how Autopilot setting can be derived from transponder data? *there is some discussion on another forum whether this is actually possible.? Thanks for the post btw
    http://www.flightradar24.com/dvbt-stick

    http://www.rtl-sdr.com/adsb-aircraft...-with-rtl-sdr/

    http://se.mathworks.com/help/support...th-matlab.html

    http://www.rtl-sdr.com/modesdeco-now...ode-s-mode-ac/
    Last edited by angelsevov; 2015-03-26 at 14:01. Reason: mac os x application

  5. #5
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    to re-phrase. Do you have a link that comfirms autopilot data is transmitted within the transponder data, or do we just have to assume the autopilot was reprogrammed?

  6. #6
    Administrator Mike's Avatar
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    As far as I understand autopilot data is not transmitted automatically but can be requested from ground stations (ATC). The data can be picked up by anyone, the issue is to understand the data as you don't know what it means if you don't have the up-link request.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    As far as I understand autopilot data is not transmitted automatically but can be requested from ground stations (ATC). The data can be picked up by anyone, the issue is to understand the data as you don't know what it means if you don't have the up-link request.
    ok thanks that makes sense. Is it possible that a request was sent to get data from the FMC because there was no response from the cockpit?

  8. #8
    Administrator Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancake View Post
    ok thanks that makes sense. Is it possible that a request was sent to get data from the FMC because there was no response from the cockpit?
    This is still being implemented at ATC so I guess different areas can request different data or nothing at all. In this case we had the data during climb as well

    09:18:30Z.455 MCP/FMC ALT: 30000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:08Z.800 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:09Z.258 T,3c6618,42.194204,4.553450,32050,GWI18G
    09:21:10Z.208 T,3c6618,42.195923,4.555518,32050,GWI18G
    09:21:11Z.109 T,3c6618,42.197296,4.557079,32075,GWI18G
    09:21:11Z.897 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:12Z.169 T,3c6618,42.199493,4.559638,32100,GWI18G
    09:21:35Z.518 T,3c6618,42.238312,4.606330,32500,GWI18G
    09:21:38Z.418 T,3c6618,42.243130,4.612342,32550,GWI18G
    09:21:38Z.951 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:39Z.268 T,3c6618,42.244852,4.614386,32550,GWI18G
    09:21:40Z.198 T,3c6618,42.246185,4.615943,32575,GWI18G
    09:21:40Z.623 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:41Z.138 T,3c6618,42.247742,4.618003,32600,GWI18G
    09:21:41Z.325 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:42Z.068 T,3c6618,42.249135,4.619559,32600,GWI18G
    09:21:42Z.897 T,3c6618,42.250858,4.621603,32625,GWI18G
    09:21:42Z.901 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:43Z.957 T,3c6618,42.252533,4.623647,32650,GWI18G
    09:21:44Z.948 T,3c6618,42.254425,4.626056,32675,GWI18G
    09:21:45Z.215 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:45Z.413 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:46Z.864 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:46Z.877 T,3c6618,42.257375,4.629715,32700,GWI18G
    09:21:47Z.738 T,3c6618,42.258585,4.631057,32725,GWI18G
    09:21:48Z.618 T,3c6618,42.260468,4.633297,32725,GWI18G
    09:21:49Z.748 T,3c6618,42.262161,4.635544,32750,GWI18G
    09:21:50Z.212 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
    09:21:50Z.463 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa

  9. #9
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    electronic malfunction should be considered too..we can't solely put the blame to the dead pilots...
    F-WMKC3 Malaysia....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kucengemok View Post
    electronic malfunction should be considered too..we can't solely put the blame to the dead pilots...
    Oh i think we can, the co pilot was a mass murderer.
    FR24 Feeder Station F-CYFC1.

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