FR24 boxes priviledged over other boxes/feeders?

[Mike]

@Mike
I think it would have been nicer if FR24 would have contacted the long term feeders who have been part of the success story of FR24 if they wanna have a free upgrade, if it was technically of use for you, rather than offering that these feeder have to look into the board and find this offer somewhere in this "jungle". you have all their contact details and thus it would have been easier to fire out an email.

I have contacted several feeders and in most cases I didn't receive a response or received a negative response. I think that out of about 20-25 emails I received positive response on 3 or 4. During 6 years FR24 have distributed equipment to about 300 feeders. We have learned several things and one is not to ask people to do us a favor and host the equipment. If someone is satisfied with his current setup, we will not ask him to make any changes for several reasons. The technical competence is different and there may be users who are used to have some favorite software, like Basestation or Airnav software and by changing receiver they may loose the possibility to run the current software. With an enthusiastic host who has taken the decision to contact FR24 by himself, the up time is much better and both parts have more benefit from the receiver.

Another aspect is that if we upgrade current feeders is we don't expand coverage. By getting new feeders, the coverage is expanding.

[peterhr]

[ snip ] missing WiFi and overall stability are some of the issues we had. I can't say so much right now, but there will be a low cost receiver for less than 100€ in production cost (without GPS/MLAT posibility).

I think Wifi adds a level of complexity you don't need - just from the point of view that it's something else that needs setting up. The box needs a cable for power anyway so you may as well just make it use POE as standard.

A power regulator from China (Ebay) to give the 5v (at the Pi end) is about $4 including post, then you just need power injectors for the Ethernet cable ($6) and a decent power supply giving maybe 18v to feed up the cable. The power regulators are supposedly 95% efficient - the one in my car doesn't seem to get warm ... so I'd assume 18V at 0.3A would become 5V at 1A at the Pi (assuming not to much volt loss in the cable, so we get near 18v out). It would be sort of nice to do the POE with an AC current down the wire (not so much corrosion if it water gets in) - but that adds complexity at the Pi end.

As for stability - I just have a cron job that restarts dump1090 and the FR24 feed programs every six hours ... the restart time on the apps is maybe 10 seconds, these are run as services so start when the Pi starts (could even have a cron job to do a "shutdown -r now")

[peterhr]

By the way, perhaps to keep the hobbyists (who helped build FR24 into what it is now) happy - maybe the FR24 box should endeavour not be fastest thing out there and maybe delay sending it it's data by a fraction of a second

I know the suggestion will hurt the guys in Sweden - but only just as much as the superfast FR24 box has hurt all the individual hobbyists all over the world.

[Mike]

By the way, perhaps to keep the hobbyists (who helped build FR24 into what it is now) happy - maybe the FR24 box should endeavour not be fastest thing out there and maybe delay sending it it's data by a fraction of a second

I know the suggestion will hurt the guys in Sweden - but only just as much as the superfast FR24 box has hurt all the individual hobbyists all over the world.

What's wrong with checking premium? That gives you a reward of seeing your radar code mentioned, no matter how many F-feeds there are in the area.

The reason we have not launched MLAT outside Europe yet, is that the current delay sending data from Brazil, USA or Asia to Sweden is too big to make good MLAT calculations. Delaying the data even more is completely pointless and we can forget about MLAT in Europe as well.

I'm not sure how your suggestion would "hurt the guys in Sweden" as with a delay "by a fraction of a second " Sweden would be the only country with MLAT.

Can we stop the radar-code discussion here? We have spent a couple hundred thousands euros on making fast receivers that will make MLAT possible and now we get suggestions that we should make them slower and disable MLAT just to give some people an "EGO BOOST". I think that continuing this discussion is completely pointless.

[peterhr]

Said they wouldn't like it!
Bye

[Mike]

I think Wifi adds a level of complexity you don't need - just from the point of view that it's something else that needs setting up. The box needs a cable for power anyway so you may as well just make it use POE as standard.

A power regulator from China (Ebay) to give the 5v (at the Pi end) is about $4 including post, then you just need power injectors for the Ethernet cable ($6) and a decent power supply giving maybe 18v to feed up the cable. The power regulators are supposedly 95% efficient - the one in my car doesn't seem to get warm ... so I'd assume 18V at 0.3A would become 5V at 1A at the Pi (assuming not to much volt loss in the cable, so we get near 18v out). It would be sort of nice to do the POE with an AC current down the wire (not so much corrosion if it water gets in) - but that adds complexity at the Pi end.

As for stability - I just have a cron job that restarts dump1090 and the FR24 feed programs every six hours ... the restart time on the apps is maybe 10 seconds, these are run as services so start when the Pi starts (could even have a cron job to do a "shutdown -r now")

WiFi is not available on current FR24box and it's requirement by many users who apply for a box. Installing the receiver closer to the antenna reduces the problem with signal loss of long cables + drilling in walls. With WiFi a mast or remote installation becomes much easier. We had so much stability problems with Rasberry Pi during our tests that the chance we will use it is quite small. The biggest problem is the SD-card slot and SD-card loose connection quite often (we have installations from -20 to +55 degrees C) and no software restart can solve that. Rasberry Pi is a great product and it sure is good for feeding data to FR24 for some users, but we need something that will be suitable for users around the world with different conditions and different needs. As said before, we are working on a low cost alternative and we will present it as soon as it is ready, and who know maybe it will support POE as well.

[SoCalBrian]

I have contacted several feeders and in most cases I didn't receive a response or received a negative response. I think that out of about 20-25 emails I received positive response on 3 or 4. During 6 years FR24 have distributed equipment to about 300 feeders.

I guess I wasn't on that contacted list. Since I never got any emails from you. You wouldn't be able to get any response from me Since I can't respond to any emails I haven't got!

Anyone else get, or didn't get that email ?

[Anmer]

Anyone else get, or didn't get that email ?

I didn't. But why should I expect to be offered a free receiver costing $500?

As I've posted previously, I choose to share to help others get something from this radarspotting hobby. It costs me nothing extra and I get a free Premium subscription in exchange.

I run a forum that does cost me money but I do it for the same reason - to help others who want to track aircraft using Mode-S data.

If you don't want to share your data that's your choice.

But it seems to me like some here want their cake and eat it and Brian never stops complaining.

[Mike]

I guess I wasn't on that contacted list. Since I never got any emails from you. You wouldn't be able to get any response from me Since I can't respond to any emails I haven't got!

Anyone else get, or didn't get that email ?

We are currently expanding our MLAT coverage in Europe only, that could maybe explain why you have not received the email.

[North Borneo Radar]

By the way, perhaps to keep the hobbyists (who helped build FR24 into what it is now) happy - maybe the FR24 box should endeavour not be fastest thing out there and maybe delay sending it it's data by a fraction of a second

I know the suggestion will hurt the guys in Sweden - but only just as much as the superfast FR24 box has hurt all the individual hobbyists all over the world.

First things first, I'd rather FR24 increase their coverage and also improve/expand their MLAT above all else. The priorities have to be right. Get it wrong and you will know what would happen - FR24 goes bankrupt, FR24 cease to exist. Happy?

And well said Anmer, both on post #14 #38.

[eddm_muc]

I have contacted several feeders and in most cases I didn't receive a response or received a negative response. I think that out of about 20-25 emails I received positive response on 3 or 4. With an enthusiastic host who has taken the decision to contact FR24 by himself, the up time is much better and both parts have more benefit from the receiver. Another aspect is that if we upgrade current feeders is we don't expand coverage. By getting new feeders, the coverage is expanding.

@Mike
Did not know that you mailed to existing feeders..in this case its sad that you did not get possitive responses..

as for increase or better MLAT coverage:
I would like to see MLAT in the southern part of Germany activated and I really do not understand why its not running yet.
What is missing?
F-EDMO1 and T-EDDM8 are FR24 MLAT boxes, if EDDM1 would be equipped and one more we could cover nearly the whole area below Frankfurt reaching from Stuttgart/Zurich to Vienna, including most of Austria, certain eastern parts of Switzerland and Northern Italy.
That would be a benefit
so may be all-seeing-pie should apply immediately

[peterhr]

First things first, I'd rather FR24 increase their coverage and also improve/expand their MLAT above all else. The priorities has to be right. Get it wrong and you will know what would happen - FR24 goes bankrupt, FR24 cease to exist. Happy?

And well said Anmer, both on post #14 #38.

No not happy,
I wish FR24 to succeed, to expand it's coverage, and so on - these guys are doing good work.
I don't wish for a $500 box for free either.
I do think it hard of those hobbyists who have helped FR24 to grow to what it is now, who find they are no longer needed - made redundant by the arrival of an FR24 on their doorstep.
It's not an "EGO-BOOST" to see your radar mentioned, it's more a sign that you're that what you're doing is making a difference and you're not wasting your time doing it.
I suppose how you see it depends on whether you are running the web site publishing the data (and you want the most reliable and best feed possible) or you a little (disposable) person providing a feed.

[Anmer]

It's not an "EGO-BOOST" to see your radar mentioned, it's more a sign that you're that what you're doing is making a difference and you're not wasting your time doing it.

Surely the fact that you get a free Premium subscription is recognition that you're "making a difference"?

I have great local range yet sometimes, when I bother to check, there are no aircraft showing with my radar alias, even though I have over 120 on my Basestation map. But now and again one or two may appear and that's good enough for me, knowing that if I stop feeding those aircraft won't show on the FR24 map for others to see.

But let's turn this on its head. What do you want that will make you "happy"?

[Mike]

@Mike
Did not know that you mailed to existing feeders..in this case its sad that you did not get possitive responses..

as for increase or better MLAT coverage:
I would like to see MLAT in the southern part of Germany activated and I really do not understand why its not running yet.
What is missing?
F-EDMO1 and T-EDDM8 are FR24 MLAT boxes, if EDDM1 would be equipped and one more we could cover nearly the whole area below Frankfurt reaching from Stuttgart/Zurich to Vienna, including most of Austria, certain eastern parts of Switzerland and Northern Italy.
That would be a benefit
so may be all-seeing-pie should apply immediately

If I remember correctly Aarhus, Aalborg and Kristiansand are all feeders with good coverage and location that I have contacted to upgrade hardware and that accepted the offer.
No T-feeders are FR24 boxes. We are not blocking anything, if there is nothing visible the coverage is still too bad. Remember that most MLAT aircraft are not flying on FL400 but FL250 or lower.

[peterhr]

Surely the fact that you get a free Premium subscription is recognition that you're "making a difference"?

I have great local range yet sometimes, when I bother to check, there are no aircraft showing with my radar alias, even though I have over 120 on my Basestation map. But now and again one or two may appear and that's good enough for me, knowing that if I stop feeding those aircraft won't show on the FR24 map for others to see.

But let's turn this on its head. What do you want that will make you "happy"?

We now have so much local cover that when my radar did show up, I'm pretty certain that it was just because I got in before someone else.
My radar was totally redundant and is now switched off and I'm certain won't be missed, it was so rarely on the filter pick list, that saving the setting to filter it in Premium was useful.

I'm not happy nor un-happy, I'm just putting forward a view that some seem to be missing - the main reason for saying anything was the re-appearence of the phrase "EGO-BOOST", it think it's actually the opposite - the disappointment that to find that you're redundant when you used to be a major contributor (which, by the way, doesn't apply in my case).